TI_USER - Posted - 01/26/2012:  18:55:20

I couldn't agree more.  The problem comes from two things as I see it.  In Bluegrass circles, the music is thought of as "hard driving" and that comes from the old Bluegrass masters like Bill Monroe and Jimmy Martin who played hard and loud largely because they had to on old inefficient PA systems.  The other is the festival jam session mentality where everybody feels they have to play as hard as possible to be heard over everyone else, when, in fact, if everyone just played a few DB's lower in volume, not only would everyone be heard, it would also sound much nicer and cleaner.  I think the tide is turning because of some of the newer players mentioned earlier.  Hopefully, banjo players get the memo.

ccravens - Posted - 01/26/2012:  19:13:07

quote:

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Originally posted by TI_USER

  Hopefully, banjo players get the memo.

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Only if the memo's written in one-syllable words and on a 2nd grade level!

TI_USER - Posted - 01/26/2012:  21:29:40

Tough crowd!!!

mandoteacher - Posted - 03/01/2012:  06:04:13

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo



I've been trying to learning mandolin for about 2 years now and don't have a problem picking out songs by ear or learning a song from tab, but... I still have this one problem that I can't seem to fix.

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Practice the following picking patterns with your scales:

1. 
   Quarter notes: pick down on top string and up on bottom string, 4 picks per note.  Go slowly - set metronome to lowest setting


2. 
   8th notes: same thing


3. 
   Triplets: emphasize the first note of each set of 3

Once you've got it at that speed, set the metronome one notch higher.  Do this each day until you can pick single strings.

Piotr - Posted - 03/07/2012:  06:33:28

quote:

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Originally posted by TI_USER

quote:

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Originally posted by mandoteacher



Yeah. I address this in my first lesson. If you had a good teacher, you wouldn't have this problem. I know a lot of people want to teach themselves. But the whole point of having a teacher is so that you don't make mistakes like this and have to go back and relearn everything later.



Well, I did a video about this topic on my youtube page, but here's what to do in a nutshell:



Start with scales. The proper right hand placement (slightly behind the bridge, fingers curled in, pick not too firmly grasped), is essential. Starting very slowly (slowest setting on your metronome), hit top string with a downstroke, under string with an upstroke. Do 4 of them per note up the scale, 2 octaves and back. Do this every day for a week at the metronome setting. Next week, increase the speed by one notch and do it again. Increase the speed by 1 notch every week. At the end of a month, you will be able to do it with no problem.

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I am a firm believer in proper technique.  The problem is, every person is different.  What works well for one person may not work so well for another.  I get so tired of this "only one way to hold a pick" nonsense.  There are a huge number of working pros who you can look to  for evidence that different pick holding techniques all CAN work well.  Some people plant their wrist on or behind the bridge.  Some people plant a finger on the mando top.  Some people (Sam Bush) use almost their entire arm.  As for me, I lightly rest the first knuckle of my pinky finger on the top and my remaining fingers curl under a little.  Works fine for me and I have played that way for 35 years.  The key is to find a technique that works for that individual player and practice that technique to perfection. 

As far as the OP's original issue.  Hopefully, this is straightened out.  The mandolin is supposed to be played in double courses, with both strings of a single course played together.  PERIOD!!  There are occasional exceptions to create a particular sound, but this is done very rarely.  The reason the mandolin has double courses is to increase resonance and volume.  The double strings are to be played as one.  Without the double courses, the mandolin would sound like a steel string ukulele. 

I am certain that the OP misunderstood his "expert" friend.  When he said to pick a single string he was referring to a single "course".   Some of the "advise" I have read here is some of the worst advise I have ever heard.

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Re Sam bush I recently saw a vid from one of Carlton Haney's festivals. Bush appeared with either the BG Alliance or Newgrass Revival, I forget which. I noted that his technique was fairly standard for a mandolin without a pickguard, palm resting lightly just behind the bridge. I understand that his change in technique came about as a result of an accident which caused his wrist to stiffen. I'm convinced that the switch was facilitated by the fact that he already played the mandolin. In another thread I have referred to Stangeland's survey of right hand techniques; there are about 17 examples; yet when you look closer at the descriptions you can see that there are basically two schools, resting behind the bridge or brushing on a guard. I've found it useful to know both so I can switch back between instruments with or without a pickguard.

TI_USER - Posted - 03/07/2012:  12:01:30

quote:

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Practice the following picking patterns with your scales:

1. 
   Quarter notes: pick down on top string and up on bottom string, 4 picks per note.  Go slowly - set metronome to lowest setting


2. 
   8th notes: same thing


3. 
   Triplets: emphasize the first note of each set of 3

Once you've got it at that speed, set the metronome one notch higher.  Do this each day until you can pick single strings.

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I'm having a real hard time figuring out what good this advise does.  Teaching someone to pick out individual strings on the mandolin instead of double courses serves no purpose at all.  Who plays like that?  I've been playing for over 35 years and have known hundreds of mandolin players throughout those years and have yet to come across anyone who picks out single strings.  Telling someone to "pick down on top string and up on bottom string" makes no sense to me.  When I play up strokes or down strokes I hit both strings simultaneously.  Can you explain to us how your advise would benefit anyone?

jazzrambler - Posted - 03/10/2012:  11:47:31

"I'm having a real hard time figuring out what good this advise does. Teaching someone to pick out individual strings on the mandolin instead of double courses serves no purpose at all. Who plays like that?"-TI USER

A common misunderstanding, when he says 'single strings' he means a single set of double strings.

TI_USER - Posted - 03/10/2012:  17:51:11

If you've read this entire thread, the discussion has been about hitting only one string of the pair instead of both.  The first of the three items of advise that "Mandoteacher" gave was "Quarter notes: pick down on top string and up on bottom string".  That's what I'm saying makes no sense.  He is telling him to hit one string of the pair, which is pretty hard to do and totally un-necessary.

jazzrambler - Posted - 03/11/2012:  11:50:55

Well, that's just crazy...

m - Posted - 03/13/2012:  21:24:17

Perhaps the original teacher was just trying emphasize that the poster hit the bottom string on the way up after a downstroke. Many beginners don't pick down through both strings, instead they sort of twist their wrists and end up  picking outwards and missing the bottom string even on the downstroke.

Also, I would adviSe readers to take my adviCe and learn the difference between advise, the verb, and advice, the noun. You are giving mandolin players a bad name, people will think that you play the banjo.

m - Posted - 03/13/2012:  21:24:53

Perhaps the original teacher was just trying emphasize that the poster hit the bottom string on the way up after a downstroke. Many beginners don't pick down through both strings, instead they sort of twist their wrists and end up  picking outwards and missing the bottom string even on the downstroke.

Also, I would adviSe readers to take my adviCe and learn the difference between advise, the verb, and advice, the noun. You are giving mandolin players a bad name, people will think that you play the banjo.

TI_USER - Posted - 03/14/2012:  03:59:41

Perhaps you are right on the money about what was implied to the OP, however, he did not take it that way and has since been trying to figure out how to hit single strings. 

Thanks for the correction in my grammar.  Spelling and word usage is usually one of my strong points, but I sure messed that up (3 times in 2 posts).. 

josv - Posted - 12/17/2012:  08:52:54

Erhh... I have a 12-string mandolin.... where the strings are grouped three for each course..... How am I supposed to do with that?

I firmly believe that one should play them all together...

mojohand40 - Posted - 12/17/2012:  11:40:19

what a weird thread....

josv - Posted - 12/18/2012:  17:15:59

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Originally posted by mojohand40

what a weird thread....

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Peter Summers - Posted - 01/16/2013:  09:53:32

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Originally posted by josv

quote:

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Originally posted by mojohand40

what a weird thread....

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Not only weird, just plain stupid if you ask me.

Play through both strings with each stroke. To attempt to play a single string of the course would cut the volume in half and double the amount of movement of the pick.  For what purpose? The advice of some of these posts is simply absurd. It's a wonder the OP doesn't go screaming into the night listening to some of this stuff. I can't believe this thread has run for five pages.

Naturally if you are picking a down stroke the pick STARTS on the top string of the course, and on an up stroke the pick STARTS on the bottom string of the course, but in either case the pick ALWAYS moves through both strings of the course. Perhaps that is were some confusion comes from in this thread. But the mandolin has two strings per course for a reason and you play both on each pick stroke, including tremolo. It is the double stringing that gives the mandolin its unique  sound.  To suggest otherwise is nonsense, IMHO.

TNmusic - Posted - 01/16/2013:  13:11:52

Now, a real mando player will play only the bottom string in a coarse on a down stroke and the top string on an up stroke. That way you limit just how far that pick has to travel and you will use less energy to get things done. Just stick that pick down in there - between the strings - and let 'er rip.

Let's see ...where's that YouTube video?

Edited by - TNmusic on 01/16/2013 13:16:30