Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/26/2010:  08:13:32

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I've been trying to learning mandolin for about 2 years now and don't have a problem picking out songs by ear or learning a song from tab, but... I still have this one problem that I can't seem to fix.

When I hit the string(s) , I hit both strings, not just one. I've tried every possible combination that I know of to hold the pick and pick the strings and I still end up hitting both strings instead of one.

This problem slows me down and also doesn't sound good (to me).

Anyone have any suggestions as to how I can just hit one string?

I'm holding the pick where there's just a little bit of it showing and am trying to hit just one string and trying not to dig in where I hit both strings, but nothing I do seems to work.

Any advice will be appreciated. I'm getting frustrated and about to put it up.

mandolinman31639 - Posted - 12/26/2010:  08:31:38

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Huh?

schlange - Posted - 12/26/2010:  09:49:20

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Aren't you supposed to hit both strings?

Sterling grass - Posted - 12/26/2010:  09:57:33

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I never thought to try and hit just one string. Sherry, you're making more work for yourself---smack 'em both together!!

Jeanie

Gary Watkins - Posted - 12/26/2010:  10:09:17

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fred davis - Posted - 12/26/2010:  10:19:27

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Hitting only one string is an advanced style and onlya few use it by hitting both strings you increase the volume of the instrument play nice and often

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/26/2010:  10:32:29

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Okay, I was told by an excellent mandolin picker that you only hit ONE string and to hit both strings was wrong and I'd never get any speed. Wonder if he was just pulling my leg or trying to confuse me?

Thanks for the info. I've been trying for months to get the technique down to hit only one string. I'll quit worrying about it and just start enjoying picking the mandolin again.

bikebum - Posted - 12/26/2010:  10:40:03

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I'm thrilled if I manage to hit the 'right' string or two.

H20 - Posted - 12/26/2010:  14:03:44

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...my air mandolin has no strings :) and so far I am quiet thrilled with my progress

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Edited by - H20 on 12/26/2010 14:04:09

bsandefur - Posted - 12/26/2010:  15:29:39

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I've never heard of that before and I have been around mandolins and pickers for many years. I'm guessing he was pulling your leg. Have you watched him play? Maybe he has developed a new style.

mandogryl - Posted - 12/26/2010:  16:41:33

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If you are only supposed to pluck a single of the pair, then why are mandolins strung up in pairs?
You could always take half of the strings off, so that you'd only hit one string.

Fstpicker - Posted - 12/26/2010:  19:24:25

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quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Okay, I was told by an excellent mandolin picker that you only hit ONE string and to hit both strings was wrong and I'd never get any speed. Wonder if he was just pulling my leg or trying to confuse me?

Thanks for the info. I've been trying for months to get the technique down to hit only one string. I'll quit worrying about it and just start enjoying picking the mandolin again.

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You poor soul...seriously! I really feel sorry for you giving yourself a hard time trying to learn this. I don't know why that mando picker would say that, but that is the first I"ve ever heard about having to only hit one string. If that was the case, I would have given up long ago. I have a hard enough time hitting both strings smoothly and fluidly.

Jeff

Susan H - Posted - 12/27/2010:  04:19:53

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Hitting one string is like to give a cat a bath. You frustrate the cat and you get wet (and/or scratched). You have to hit both strings, really no choice. There are times I have heard of players using one string, and tuning the sets of strings an octave a part. But, in all the years I've been playing and watching other players I see (and hear) them using both strings. I was taught to play both strings.

Susan
Have you hugged your mandolin today?

RobertJ711 - Posted - 12/27/2010:  06:39:17

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I looked at alot of mandolin instruction books and none of them ever said to hit just one string,unless your instructor meant not to hit the two strings below,like if you were playing open A not to hit open E at the same time,and you misunderstood,or possibly were misunderstanding the question.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/27/2010:  07:14:17

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Sure makes playing the mandolin easier now that I don't have to worry about hitting that second string.

Thanks again for all the responses. I've back to playing the mandolin and enjoying it again.

Jim Yates - Posted - 12/27/2010:  11:15:55

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Some mandolin players, Norman Blake and Jesse McRenolds, will sometimes fret a single string, Perhaps that's what he meant.

dmiller - Posted - 12/27/2010:  14:02:18

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jim Yates

Some mandolin players, Norman Blake and Jesse McRenolds, will sometimes fret a single string,
Perhaps that's what he meant.

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Jim has a good point there, but I'm guessing the mando teacher Sherry mentioned didn't mean that. Fretting one of the strings (while playing both) is really hard to do. I've tried it before, but my fingers are too big to be able to accomplish the desired results. I've heard it called "split string picking", but there might be another name that technique is known by too.

Monroe used that technique in his tune "My Last Days On Earth". Try to do this:

Put your finger on the 3rd fret of the E string, but fret only one of the strings and leave the other open.
When hitting both strings, you'll get both a G note as well as the E. A haunting sound.
It's hard to do, and is definitely an advanced technique that takes a lot of practice to be able to do.
It's especially hard when doing a song with that in the framework of the tune

Since the mandolin strings are in courses of two, two strings are meant to be picked and not just one.
I'm surprised someone would even suggest otherwise. That's nonsense.
Why would the 2nd string be there, if it wasn't meant to be played?
Even with the "split string" way of picking, both strings are meant to be picked - - Not just one.

Anyway - - - here is a You Tube of Monroe doing "My Last Days On Earth"
with that "split string" technique I mentioned earlier.

youtube.com/watch?v=caUaiHs4hsc

coelhoe - Posted - 12/27/2010:  15:30:52

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Hi, David: I think that's not split string, that's a different tuning. I've seen it mentioned as (L-H) AA DD AC DF. It is similar to what Monroe used on "Get Up John"

Petimar - Posted - 12/27/2010:  17:00:47

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I've never heard a good player try to pick just one string of the pair. Like others have said, there are different tunings and split string technique, but pick both of the pair.

Philphool - Posted - 12/31/2010:  05:29:43

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Generally speaking, treat the course of 2 strings as a single string.
I've actually heard MORE people complaining that their teacher complains that they DON'T hit both strings because they're being too tentative in their playing.

MandolinJo - Posted - 12/31/2010:  08:09:05

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I have heard of this before, it had something to do with tremolo if I remember correctly (pick down on the top string pick up on bottom string)... It took to long to learn so whatever string I hit(both) had to work for me, but I am self taught so I do every thing wrong...
As long as your mandolin is in tune you will be fine hitting both strings, have fun and happy picking!

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Edited by - MandolinJo on 12/31/2010 08:10:42

mandoteacher - Posted - 01/04/2011:  12:18:49

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Lots of good ideas here for sure!

Well, it takes practice! I recommend practicing hitting each individual string with scales...it's the only way to be sure. Start with, say the G Scale, and do 4 quarter notes per note with the following pattern: down, up, down up...make sure you hit only the top string on the down stroke and the bottom string on the up stroke. Good luck!

m - Posted - 01/04/2011:  12:25:35

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quote:

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Originally posted by mandoteacher

Lots of good ideas here for sure!

Well, it takes practice! I recommend practicing hitting each individual string with scales...it's the only way to be sure. Start with, say the G Scale, and do 4 quarter notes per note with the following pattern: down, up, down up...make sure you hit only the top string on the down stroke and the bottom string on the up stroke. Good luck!

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I don't understand why anyone would want to play only one string ever. How would they play doublestops or tremolo the doublestops.

teebee - Posted - 01/04/2011:  15:34:53

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I would say, "pick the strings AS IF they were single strings"

majikgator - Posted - 01/07/2011:  15:46:19

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Sounds like either very bad or at best confusing advice to a beginner, they are strung in pairs for a reason, of course hit them both.

creekwater - Posted - 01/12/2011:  10:40:30

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Woever give you that advise is an idiot ! Who said that person was excellant ? themselves ? You will pick both strings in I would say 99.99% of the time. Only way I'm gonna pick one of a pair is if the other one breaks while I'm playing. It really irks me to see all these so called experts giving new pickers wrong info. People like that don't deserve to be able to pick.

Andy - Posted - 01/13/2011:  05:17:17

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The only time I ever heard of anyone hitting just one string was Jesse McReynolds, who picks a single string when he is "splitting" the strings.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/14/2011:  05:47:56

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Let me throw this out for information:

I'm picking Cripple Creek and when I try to get any speed up at all, I'm hitting both strings and it sounds terrible and slows me down. If I pick very slowly and hit only one string, then I can get all the notes but the minute I try to speed it up at all, I hit both strings and the sound is terrible. Don't seem to have that problem on other songs and have about given up learning CC. I'm not trying to play it fast, just speed up maybe 5bpm from about 60 and it just doesn't work for me. I don't have any problem on other songs like Old Joe Clark, Salt Creek, Soldier's Joy, etc. Can't figure out what's wrong.

Any thoughts on why I can't play the 8th notes in that song correctly?

Piotr - Posted - 01/15/2011:  12:28:26

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It's difficult to analyze your right hand issues from a verbal account. One guess could be excessive tension in your wrist, or picking too deeply.
Do you use a pickguard? Do you "plant"? On a pickguard, the natural, most relaxed technique is to brush (NOT plant) with lightly curled fist. Without a guard, if your hands are small, planting could lead to the pick dipping too far. There's a video on YouTube with Mike Marshall explaining the basics (on a mandolin without a pickguard), watch it!

I've never heard of anyone recommending hitting only one string at a time. I do sometimes play what I call "split string triplets", dividing a down stroke
between the two strings of one course, but that's a very special (and difficult) effect.

However, I do believe that when you pick up speed you tend to pick only one string on the downstroke and the other on the upstroke (I really don't know which of two equally tuned strings is the "top" or "bottom" one!), or at least
hit one of them stronger than the other. But that's automatic.

woodwizard - Posted - 01/15/2011:  19:47:23

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I've heard of split strings but that's a different animal. Trying to only hit one string everytime you pluck a note would drive you crazy. Now that you got that ironed out you can start having some fun pickin' that mandolin. That's what it's all about right?

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/16/2011:  05:46:05

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I don't have a pick guard and I DO plant my ring finger -- and that may cause me to dig in too deep -- have been watching to see if I do -- and that may be part of my problem. I'll try not planting and see if I can even hit the right strings.

Tension in the wrist? Probably, since I'm trying very hard to pick 8th notes and make them sound like 8th notes and not a bunch of garbage.

Maybe I'll just go back to the banjo and forget the mandolin? Might be easier.

m - Posted - 01/16/2011:  08:53:21

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quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I don't have a pick guard and I DO plant my ring finger -- and that may cause me to dig in too deep -- have been watching to see if I do -- and that may be part of my problem. I'll try not planting and see if I can even hit the right strings.

Tension in the wrist? Probably, since I'm trying very hard to pick 8th notes and make them sound like 8th notes and not a bunch of garbage.

Maybe I'll just go back to the banjo and forget the mandolin? Might be easier.

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Why are you trying to pick only one string of the pair?

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/16/2011:  11:09:30

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Because an "expert" mandolin picker told me that's what I should do -- and I've been trying ever since and it just didn't work. People think he was either being funny or deliberately trying to steer me in the wrong direction. I no longer try to hit just one string -- thanks to all the nice people her on the Mandohangout.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/17/2011:  05:57:49

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Pjotr -- I did try picking without planting any fingers and although it was very awkward and strange, I think that may be the answer to my problem. I'll try it again today, maybe it'll feel more "natural". Thanks for the advice.

mandoteacher - Posted - 01/17/2011:  06:28:47

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Try this. Place the fingers of your left hand under your right wrist. Feel those tendons there? Ok, now extend the fingers of your right hand. Feel the tendons tighten up? Now relax the fingers. Feel them loosen? When you plant your fingers, you tighten the tendons, putting strain on your forearm (where the muscles are), the nerves in your wrist and hand (think carpal tunnel syndrome). There is a lot less wear and tear on your body when you keep your fingers curled below your pick. Here's what I do:

1. place the heel of my right hand on the strings slightly behind the bridge
2. curl my fingers loosely in my right hand
3. hold the pick between thumb and forefinger

Here's a video I did on the right hand: youtube.com/watch?v=dyGgXq7Uq3E, and another on how to hold the pick: youtube.com/watch?v=keDDJM-FMpY

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/17/2011:  10:54:49

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Thanks for the info, but I can't curl my fingers -- they have to stay straight -- arthritis, I guess. I'll keep trying, but it seems to cause more tension than relaxation.

Bluegrassified - Posted - 01/19/2011:  08:08:18

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LOL! Man, this is funny! It is threads like this that entertain me, and at the same time, make me want to never come back. Holy cow.... Wonder what other great advice this "excellent mandolin picker" has given? Maybe this thread can become the funniest/worst advice or pointer you've ever been given!

Bluegrassified - Posted - 01/19/2011:  08:15:31

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Mandoteacher, nice advice on the right hand! This is truly good. However, it is hard to convince folks when pickers like Adam Steffey plant a finger. Thankfully, I learned not to plant from the beginning. A nice loose grip on the pick between thumb and forefinger, fingers relaxed and curled, gives me the most speed and acurracy. Very good advice.

Tim Smith - Posted - 01/19/2011:  21:41:31

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Your teacher is giving you proper advice. You need to be able to play down/up on a course of strings. If you play through both strings on a course down/up your tremolo will never have speed. You will also have to use this to do any crosspicking.

Here's a good lesson...youtube.com/watch?v=PTKABaK83-...&index=38


For anyone who believes this guy can't pick watch this video and pay attention to his right hand.


youtube.com/watch?v=tzYfN8tWXf8

Here is the technique for cross picking.

youtube.com/watch?v=_V8em1iXDo...laynext=2

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Edited by - Tim Smith on 01/19/2011 23:46:28

Tim Smith - Posted - 01/19/2011:  22:55:21

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Here is Pete Frostic giving the same advice.

youtube.com/watch?v=8a5JxjmmIrE

Another..

youtube.com/watch?v=zUaIO_hzDcM

Pete Martin on how to pick eighth notes with down/up

youtube.com/watch?v=lBXMEXF1Jg...e=related

Roland White...

youtube.com/watch?v=9YzFQJosVG...e=related

Don Julin (jazz)

youtube.com/watch?v=Un1Z0Fcfo6o

Dan B. (Irish)

youtube.com/watch?v=XymP9kBd3T...e=related

Butch Baldasari demonstrating Monroes use of single notes.

youtube.com/watch?v=TcKcw0oYA0...e=related

So yeah I think I would stick with the teacher. There will be times when both strings will be played of course, when playing downstrokes only, or a double stop you want to use for effect, but if you don't play the down/up pattern on tremolo or eighth notes trying to play both courses at the same time will bog you down.

I bet most who answered this play this way they just do not realize it. I can't think of a pro player who doesn't play eighth notes and faster with this single string down/up pattern.

Tim Smith - Posted - 01/20/2011:  00:23:44

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Here's one more from Roland showing single string and double string tremolo.

youtube.com/watch?v=YN80tW6vsaM


Hope these video's help Texasbanjo. It's easier to show something than explain it in writing, for me anyway.

m - Posted - 01/20/2011:  11:58:04

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tim Smith

Here is Pete Frostic giving the same advice.

youtube.com/watch?v=8a5JxjmmIrE

Another..

youtube.com/watch?v=zUaIO_hzDcM

Pete Martin on how to pick eighth notes with down/up

youtube.com/watch?v=lBXMEXF1Jg...e=related

Roland White...

youtube.com/watch?v=9YzFQJosVG...e=related

Don Julin (jazz)

youtube.com/watch?v=Un1Z0Fcfo6o

Dan B. (Irish)

youtube.com/watch?v=XymP9kBd3T...e=related

Butch Baldasari demonstrating Monroes use of single notes.

youtube.com/watch?v=TcKcw0oYA0...e=related

So yeah I think I would stick with the teacher. There will be times when both strings will be played of course, when playing downstrokes only, or a double stop you want to use for effect, but if you don't play the down/up pattern on tremolo or eighth notes trying to play both courses at the same time will bog you down.

I bet most who answered this play this way they just do not realize it. I can't think of a pro player who doesn't play eighth notes and faster with this single string down/up pattern.

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I just watched the Pete Martin video and he very clearly said that you pick both strings at the same time.

m - Posted - 01/20/2011:  12:05:04

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tim Smith

Here is Pete Frostic giving the same advice.

youtube.com/watch?v=8a5JxjmmIrE

Another..

youtube.com/watch?v=zUaIO_hzDcM

Pete Martin on how to pick eighth notes with down/up

youtube.com/watch?v=lBXMEXF1Jg...e=related

Roland White...

youtube.com/watch?v=9YzFQJosVG...e=related

Don Julin (jazz)

youtube.com/watch?v=Un1Z0Fcfo6o

Dan B. (Irish)

youtube.com/watch?v=XymP9kBd3T...e=related

Butch Baldasari demonstrating Monroes use of single notes.

youtube.com/watch?v=TcKcw0oYA0...e=related

So yeah I think I would stick with the teacher. There will be times when both strings will be played of course, when playing downstrokes only, or a double stop you want to use for effect, but if you don't play the down/up pattern on tremolo or eighth notes trying to play both courses at the same time will bog you down.

I bet most who answered this play this way they just do not realize it. I can't think of a pro player who doesn't play eighth notes and faster with this single string down/up pattern.

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I just watched the Pete Martin video and he very clearly said that you pick both strings at the same time.

Tim Smith - Posted - 01/20/2011:  14:21:57

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Mandoteacher also has a good beginner tutorial on the down/up technique on this page.

The down/up single string when done fast will sound like a single string with each string just nanoseconds apart. You just do not have as much pick travel or friction as you would trying to push or pull the pick through both courses.

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Edited by - Tim Smith on 01/20/2011 14:43:16

Tim Smith - Posted - 01/20/2011:  16:04:40

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Here is Monroe playing slow enough that you can hear his use of full string downbeats, tremelo both as downstrokes and down/up and you can hear the use of single string down/ups. On the first break he plays almost all downstrokes and double stop stuff and the second break he goes into a lot of single note down/up stuff. It gives those notes a "beating" sound for lack of a better word.

youtube.com/watch?v=LI92oDdXaz...e=related

DaddyJ - Posted - 01/20/2011:  18:27:03

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quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Okay, I was told by an excellent mandolin picker that you only hit ONE string and to hit both strings was wrong and I'd never get any speed. Wonder if he was just pulling my leg or trying to confuse me?

Thanks for the info. I've been trying for months to get the technique down to hit only one string. I'll quit worrying about it and just start enjoying picking the mandolin again.

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I think I see what's going on here. You have to understand that when mando players say "one string", they're really talking about two strings. If you hear, "play the third fret on the G string," that means both G strings together. You'll never hear "play the third fret on both G strings" but that's essentially what you're doing. Hitting (literally) one string at a time is very advanced and completely unnecessary (IMO) to good mando pickin'.

In this video, Roland White clearly demonstrates tremolo picking on "one string" (aka two strings) and "two strings" (aka four strings). Sounds like whoever gave you that advice was well intentioned and correct but maybe didn't explain it properly.

I do remember when I first started playing mandolin, for some reason I though tremolo was done across several strings. It had that full sound that, as a guitar player, I would never associate with a single string. I remember being surprised (and relieved) when I found out that good tremolo only required hitting one string (by which I of course mean two strings).

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/22/2011:  13:38:47

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Well, we've got a good thread going here. You either do or don't hit both strings and seems like there are 2 camps: the do's and the don'ts. So, what's a newbie to do, try both ways and see which one works best?

I've tried hitting both strings and when playing fiddle tunes, it bogs me down and I can't get any speed -- not that I'm looking for speed -- but it just doesn't sound good. I've tried hitting just one string using the down/up stroke and that doesn't seem to ge working, either.

Guess it's back to the old practice chair and see what I can come up with.

DaddyJ - Posted - 01/22/2011:  15:40:51

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There aren't two camps. You always hit both strings, period, end of discussion. Just put "hitting one string" out of your head completely, it has no basis in anything. Mmmkay?

Here's a question for you: what is the second string for? You think it's there not to be played? Think about it.

Dave Weiss - Posted - 01/22/2011:  18:20:09

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Play both strings as one, the more you do it the better it will sound, before you know it you'll be up to speed.