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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.mandohangout.com/archive/25398
Ben Venuti - Posted - 12/20/2011: 00:36:30
A little more explanation would be useful. When I drop my pick most times it falls down, I have been searching for a zero gravity pick in hope that if I drop it it just stays there. Bending over is getting to be a real drag.
Ben Venuti - Posted - 12/20/2011: 08:09:36
Cast acrylic --sounds stiff and brittle but you should try one and report back. I was using Dunlop Ultex picks until I was given a Bluechip and if i were to lose the Bluechip I would probably go back to the Dunlop unless someone gives me another Bluechip. $35 for a pick is at least $30 more than a pick should cost. The increased gripability,if that's a word, of the Bluechip is a pretty great feature though. I do think that after you finally settle on a type of pick it is probably to your advantage to stay with it rather than changing around. Someone is always trying to reinvent the wheel, maybe the best idea is to find out what pick your mandolin playing hero uses and do the same thing.
Ben Venuti - Posted - 12/20/2011: 08:17:57
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Venuti
Someone is always trying to reinvent the wheel, maybe the best idea is to find out what pick your mandolin playing hero uses and do the same thing. Jethro Burns,my hero used a crappy, floppy old fender pick and playing a Washburn mandolin when I saw him- he still sounds better me than pretty much anyone else with their Calton Cased Gilchrist/loar/Kimble/Ellis Bluechiped whatever K & K powered super stuff.
Edited by - Ben Venuti on 12/20/2011 08:20:32
TI_USER - Posted - 12/20/2011: 18:37:46
Funny this should come up. I just started a thread about these last week on Mandolin Cafe. Someone had casually mentioned them in a thread about something else and I wondered what they were. I did a little research and found that it is basically a new company that is putting out picks that are very similar to the V-Pick. They are made of cast acrylic and come in three thicknesses. .75mm, 1.5mm, and 3mm. The come in a variety of colors and each shape they offer comes in three sizes. I found out through a guitar thread that if you email him (Chris Fahey) and tell him what size and shape pick you currently use he will send you a free sample to try. So I did. All he asks is that you give him some feedback and tell others about them. I received my pick yesterday and let me tell you this pick is really nice. One of the most common complaints about the V-Pick is the noise from the pick itself. Some call it a "chirp". I really liked a lot of things about the V-Pick. What I didn't like was the inconsistency in the edge. I found them to be very bright and scratchy-sounding. They have a great feel to the hands and glide off of the strings very nicely. They are loud. Well the Gravity Pick has all of these features too, but what sets them apart from V-Pick for me is the edge is very smooth. I still have a couple of V-Picks and I looked at one of those and the Gravity Pick with a 12X magnifying loop. The edge of the V-Pick waves all over the place and has a bunch of rough lines all along the edge. The Gravity Pick is very smooth and consistent all the way around the whole edge surface. The tone is much smoother and I feel like I can play tremolo without sounding like I'm playing with sandpaper. I have experimented with a number of different picks recently including Wegen, Blue Chip, V-Pick and this new pick from Gravity Picks is by far my favorite. Best part is they are only $5 per pick. Email Chris and try one for free.
email: chris@gravitypicks.com
web site: gravitypicks.com/
Edited by - TI_USER on 12/20/2011 18:43:38
TI_USER - Posted - 12/21/2011: 03:51:09
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Venuti
Someone is always trying to reinvent the wheel, maybe the best idea is to find out what pick your mandolin playing hero uses and do the same thing.
Hopefully, you're not serious. That's the worst advise I would ever give someone. Every mandolin is different. Every playing style is different. Each player has a different grip, different pick angle, different strings for that matter. Each individual needs to see what works best for them. I certainly don't expect a relative beginner to plunge into $35 Blue Chips, but a $5 pick shouldn't be a problem. I think there are a lot of players who don't get the best they can out of their instruments because they just use what everyone else uses and don't experiment with strings and picks.
TSSN - Posted - 12/21/2011: 05:07:24
I will try any pick once. Sounds like this one is worth the risk, although V-Picks are still a favorite of mine (and if you go with the thinner ones, the "chirp" all but disappears) and they have the same gripping action.
I agree with Ben that no pick should cost $35 or more. I have tried the Blue Chip, and I just can't justify that cost given my level of play. Maybe if my last name was Bush or Lawson, but it isn't...
However, I think TI_USER has a stronger point. Experimenting with strings and especially picks is at a minimum, fun to do, and I would say some version of necessary if you play a lot and take the practice seriously. Besides, it is an excuse to go into the music shops, and visit online places like Janet Davis. And write to Mr. Fahey...
Buttonwood Bob - Posted - 12/21/2011: 06:31:39
Definitely, handsome, but curious why they should "sound better than the pick I'm using"? That should be easy, however. My pick just makes a clicking noise. I'm holding out for a pick with a built in micro amplifier and synthesizer.
In the interim, I am a sucker for bargains and gimmicks, neither of which has made me sound any better. I'm thinking I should try one of these jeweled beauties. The price is not prohibitive.
Ben Venuti - Posted - 12/21/2011: 14:14:51
Frank Wakefield's advise to me was to always use the same( type) pick. After experimenting around I think it's probably better to settle on something that works and unless something comes up that totally eclipses what you had before why change up? My point about looking at what the big boys are doing and do that.--- With all the new cool accessories to buy these days I don't think personally that it's possible to prove that things are better. Still my favorites are Jethro,Bill,Dave Appollon, Red Rector, and Frank --nobody has surpassed these guys IMHO, with all the monel, K &K inserts,speed necked,bluechipped junk out there that those guys never had. I do have to admit that Dawg uses a Dawg pick and he sounds just fine but I can't stand them.
TI_USER - Posted - 12/21/2011: 19:47:23
I see your point and completely agree on finding what works best and sticking with it. However, you have to remember that the great players you mentioned had nowhere near the choices and technology we have the luxury of having today. They didn't have the choices we have in fine independent mandolin makers, string technology, or the unbelievable choices in picks and all the varying tones they afford. If they had those choices back then, do you not think they wouldn't do the same thing we do today and experiment to find what worked for them. They worked with what they had available to them. I don't think we should be doing the "pick of the month" thing, but as long as we have the ability to fine tune our tone to exactly what we like, why not experiment until we find what works.
Edited by - TI_USER on 12/21/2011 19:48:50
Ben Venuti - Posted - 12/22/2011: 01:14:59
They had picks and strings and fine mandolins. Apparently that was enough. They of course took advantage of the technology that they had available. You can tell by their choice of the music they wrote and recorded. It pretty much stayed in sync with the advances in recording technology as they happened. The real magic bullet that they had was a great work ethic and musical ideas. I'm ranting for sure but it's a fair question. Where is the better from all this "better" technology? I'm not hearing it in the music and that is where it needs to show up.What I mean by that is that although there are many fine musicians who can play wonderfully I'm not hearing better sounding music tonally or more complicated intricate fingering or picking technique now than was produced back in the day.
I have some nice equipment and slow down gizmos and electronic gadgetry. A bunch of mandolins of which at least 2 of are very good. I have a bluechip pick and experimented with strings and done the whole thing but what it comes down to is that it isn't much change. I started playing with GHS strings that are at least as good as any other string I've tried. The Bluechip tonally is only marginally better than the Dunlop that I previously used but it does have a better grip and I appreciate that as I begin to loose my grip.
The first mandolin I ever played(at) was a Gibson Loar that belonged to Frank Wakefield and it and he prompted me to decide to try and learn how to play mandolin so I went out and bought an old vintage Gibson A model. I found a good teacher,who also had a Loar model Gibson. The first and 3rd mandolins that I ever touched were both Loars which I knew were fine mandolins but at the time I didn't really understand how really fine or how special they were. I played my ass off from then on. In those early years I always had a teacher, even when I was playing in bands or teaching myself, I still had a coach, as it were. I listened to a lot of recorded music. I wasn't until recently(the last few years) that I had anything more than a mandolin,a case, a tuning fork and a pick. The choices weren't out there-- no distractions. When the choices started showing up and then snowballing I was set up and little of that drew my attention. The first electronic tuners were cool and ultimately I went that way. I was nice to be able to tune even though the banjo player wouldn't stop for a few seconds so you could hear to tune. Gibson made the mandolins,period! and when they forgot how Given's made a few. I bought one of those because the Gibson's had turned to junk and if you bought one you had to take it to Bob Given's or Randy Wood to fix it ,or "get the sound out of it " as I had heard it referred to.
I think that once you get to the point of good--a good mandolin,a good pick that works for you, and a good set of strings that gives the ring you like what else is ? Then you play and become intimately familiar with the stuff that you use. A pick no matter how good will not correct poor right hand technique and there is only one way to get a good right hand. A really good right hand then you can use a really junky .59 cent pick like Jethro used.
TI_USER - Posted - 12/22/2011: 06:23:00
I completely agree with you on several of your points. No amount of new equipment in the world is going to make you a better player. That takes dedication to practice and a knowledge of fundamental technique. However, I still feel that great players back then had a choice of tortoise or celluloid and possibly nylon and that was about it. If you take a player that has impeccable right hand technique and give him or her the choice of a "junky .59 cent pick" or the variety of choices we have today, I think they would try several and find what they like best. We today are no different.
I wasn't really meaning to get into an argument about this. We obviously dis-agree about this topic. I don't see the choices we have as being a replacement for technique, I see it as the opportunity to fine tune our tone. I have been playing for 35 years now and am very excited to see what we have available to us. Some of it is gimmick, for sure, but experienced players know how to sift through the gimmicky stuff and find the products that make a real difference.
The comments I made about the Gravity Pick were because I love the tone it produces on my mandolin and has a very nice grip, which allows me to play with less force and not fear I'll lose it. It makes my playing cleaner. I agree that the Blue Chip is a fine pick and also has a nice grip, but the tone was almost identical to the Fender Extra Heavy I had used for years.
Edited by - TI_USER on 12/22/2011 06:27:58
Ben Venuti - Posted - 12/22/2011: 08:39:46
I on the other hand do want an argument or at least a discussion and disagreement is ok,it's something to talk about. No one is posting on this site much and if people don't weigh in then this Mando Hang Out is going out. Someone posts something and doesn't get a response for 72 hours, that kills the thread. I'm giving this site 6 months tops if things don't pick up. So on a couple of threads I am playing devils advocate just to see what happens. I am going to start a dedampening thread here soon so stay tuned. I do think that most of the stuff that people advocate for is just gimmick and many people are looking for a magic bullet to improve their playing rather than do what is necessary, which is work hard. We get all caught up in products and junk in this country and have so many choices it makes things clouded and more difficult at times. Sometimes you go into a coffee shop and have to learn a new language practically to order when all you wanted was a cup of joe. Back to the extra heavy fender--that's what I'm talking about. Maybe,Dave Apollon would have used a Gravity or a Bluechip had they been available but he didn't and I don't think you'll find that anyone plays or sounds better technically or artistically than he did with all the new stuff avaiiable. That's my point....the cool stuff isn't necessarily making things (music) better.
TI_USER - Posted - 12/22/2011: 09:03:37
I couldn't agree more about the site. I stopped going on daily and wound up only looking about one a week because NOTHING was happening. Since someone posted about how dead it was things have picked up, but a lot more needs to happen or else it will be gone.
TSSN - Posted - 12/23/2011: 04:52:38
quote:
Originally posted by Ben Venuti
I do think that most of the stuff that people advocate for is just gimmick and many people are looking for a magic bullet to improve their playing rather than do what is necessary, which is work hard. We get all caught up in products and junk in this country and have so many choices it makes things clouded and more difficult at times. Sometimes you go into a coffee shop and have to learn a new language practically to order when all you wanted was a cup of joe.
With sound advice like that, you will kill the MHO in no time!!! 
Seriously, some of the points raised here have particular resonance. I especially like the one regarding the improvement (or lack thereof) of the music, in spite of so many "improvements" in string, picks, etc. My playing time, compared to most of the previous posters here, seems to be limited. I am only 8 years in. So my interest in new products is borne of a desire to improve my skills and technique, but also a kind of scientific curiosity. It takes time and effort to change strings, but trying a new pick is easy and quick to do and (usually) fairly inexpensive.
Talk of posting frequency and the Blue Chip are a strange confluence of issues for me, but I would have to echo what you have said. I have nothing against Blue Chips, other than the price. However, it seems that most times and places, people refer to it like it's the polio vaccine in 1955. I have tried a BC twice, and it does seem to be a little quicker off the strings. Otherwise...
On a related note, many of the specialty pick makers are Americans with American businesses. I support those whenever I can, with the knowledge that they are American businesses, and that the product is very often made largely by hand. To be sure, this is an international forum, so if you are, say Belgian, then I highly encourage you to look for pick maker in Belgium. And this isn't nationalism (hey, I own a few Wegens myself), I think it's just smart.
TI_USER - Posted - 12/23/2011: 06:57:18
I do like the idea that you are supporting American hand made products by buying products such as Blue Chip, V-Pick, Red Bear and Gravity Picks (I know there are others that I can't think of right now). I will always buy what works best for me, no matter where it is made, but if I can find a home-based product that serves my needs, than all the better.
TSSN - Posted - 12/28/2011: 19:55:02
I got mine yesterday, and have played for a total of about two hours with them, alongside a few other picks in the stable.
Chris Fahey was kind enough to send me (and fast! ) a Classic XL and a Striker XL, both 0.75 mm thick. These are thinner than what I normally use, and they do have some flex. Still, I like them a lot. The tone is crisp and clean, and with very little pick noise. For fast picking (not tremelo), these picks are quick off the strings, especially the Striker.
The edges are remarkably clean and smooth. I actually like the Striker for straight picking and very much so for strumming, but as you might expect, it is quite limited for tremelo-heavy tunes. The Classic has the rounded edges on the back, so you get the nice picking sound of the Striker, but also with the tremelo action just by turning the pick (which is easy to do on the fly). I have used a V-Pick Tremelo pick for a few years now, and the Gravity Classic compares favorably to it. Right now, I might give the V-Pick Tremelo a slight edge (pun not intended) especially given the extra bevel that comes on the V-Pick, but a slightly thicker Gravity classic would probably help to rectify this issue.
In short, I like these Gravity picks a lot and I will be purchasing more. I have played them alongside my V-Pick Tremolo and Wegen BG140s, and I think they compare quite well.
Many thanks, Chris, for the sample!
TI_USER - Posted - 01/24/2012: 18:46:53
I actually have accumulated several of the Gravity picks now. I think they all have a fantastic tone and feel. My two favorites are the Striker XL 1.5 and the Axis XL 1.5. They are exactly the same shape and size, but the Axis has slightly more rounded points. I've been leaning more towards the Striker, though. Interestingly enough, one of the samples I got was a Striker XXL 1.5, which is the same as the Striker XL 1.5, but is larger (same size as a standard Fender 346). For some reason, the edges were scratchier sounding than the XL. Probably just a bad sample but I've been using the XL and I'm getting used to the smaller size.
To make my PAS even worse, I just ordered an 3-pack of Dunlop Americana Picks. From what I've read, they're very similar to acrylic in tone and feel. They're cheap enough (3-pack for $4.50 at Elderly), so I thought I'd try them. Lord help me, it never ends!!!
TI_USER - Posted - 01/25/2012: 18:23:12
quote:
Originally posted by mandolin boy
Ti did you get rounded or triangle American pick?
Triangular. That's what I'm most used to. I was just reading today on MC about someone who tried the Americana. He said that the pick isn't flat but is thicker in the middle and tapers off to 1.5mm at the edge. Curious to see how that feels. But at only $1.50 each, I won't care if I don't like it.
mandoist - Posted - 07/03/2015: 05:15:29
As always, when this subject comes up, those with a penchant for the Tortoise-tones on any given instrument will find them in (of course) Tortoise Shell...
and very nearest T-shell (to my ear) are Wegen, and in the past 8 months Hense "Happy Turtle".
Jim Yates - Posted - 07/04/2015: 13:27:14
Sam Bush was asked what pick he uses and he answered, "Plastic .96".
Grizzly Adams - Posted - 03/17/2017: 11:34:39
I use Dunlop Primetone 1.4 and Bluechip CT55. Really can't tell much difference, except price!
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