3genpicker - Posted - 02/22/2021:  08:20:58

I recently inherited my great grandfathers mandolin from my grandfather. I know nothing about the mandolin except for it needs some love put into it. There are no stamps or identifying marks nothing in the sound hole. Nothing lol... its old its beautiful and im scared to touch it haha. Ive been picking around on a harmony batwing I recieved from him as well thats my player.

Joe Mangio - Posted - 02/22/2021:  09:52:37

It's peghead says Gibson. Looking at the tailpiece and lack of fretboard extension I'd say it's a knock off.

3genpicker - Posted - 02/22/2021:  10:22:12

Man I hope thats not the case the headstock does say gibson on it. There is a story that goes this was bought from gibson not a third party. Grandpa had called gibson asking for this model whatever it is. They replied they didnt have it until they had checked old inventory or something along those lines. So this supposedly came from Kalamazoo.

Edited by - 3genpicker on 02/22/2021 10:23:26

TSSN - Posted - 02/22/2021:  10:24:49

I think Joe is right. If not a knock off; perhaps a Frankenstein mando.

The headstock looks okay for a 1930's F7, but I'm pretty sure those had F holes only, and not an oval.

3genpicker - Posted - 02/22/2021:  10:28:53

Damn... i think i will keep it to myself maybe not tell grandpa lol... it sounds pretty damn good for a knockoff. And the playability puts the harmony to shame.

TSSN - Posted - 02/22/2021:  10:37:45

I think your best bet is contact someone like Gruhn Guitars in Nashville. They are experts in this sort of thing.

guitars.com , or
(615) 492-8571

Maybe you have a 1-off prototype...

3genpicker - Posted - 02/22/2021:  11:23:53

So I gave gruhn a call and who did I get? To my surprise I was fowarded to George Gruhn himself. Very nice guy who said how can I help. So I have at this point emailed him the pictures andam waiting for a response. Thank you TSSN and the others that replied. Ill let you know what the doctor says.

3genpicker - Posted - 02/22/2021:  11:54:18

Well the verdict is in george gruhn says its a 1941 f4 with f5 pick guard, pre-war tuners, pre-war tail piece which gibson apparently used. All of the mando is gibson. Then he asked if i wanted to sell it lol. So ill being taking it up to daves guitar shop and having it set up. Im so jacked right now lol. Thanks again all.

Joe Mangio - Posted - 02/22/2021:  12:37:30

Congrats, enjoy!

TSSN - Posted - 02/22/2021:  12:46:13

Glad to help. I've been to Gruhn's a few times, and scored a lovely Avante guitar there a few years back. The staff there is top notch.

FWIW, found this along the way too:



     harryandjeaniewest.com/product...ndolin-2/

Helps to explain the fretboard without the extension. We learn something new everyday...

3genpicker - Posted - 02/22/2021:  13:26:12

Yeah he said during the war they made these fingerboards. If i ever make it down there im definitely making a stop at his shop.
Still curious about the lack of serial and fon.. but i sent a bunch of pictures and paid for appraisal so we shall see.

Yooper - Posted - 02/22/2021:  13:26:53

Beautiful instrument. Gibson was famous for straying from standard specs whenever they felt like it. The one that Patrick posted at the West shop has a fern inlay, this one has flor-de-lis. I'm sure they would put any tailpiece or pickguard on it that you wanted too. A 1940s F4 is a real rarity. And a wonderful piece of family history.

Yooper - Posted - 02/22/2021:  14:42:17

There is an excellent book for researching these things; The Complete Guide to The Gibson Mandolins by Paul Fox. 2016. Center Stream Publications. Also a fun read.

Yooper - Posted - 02/22/2021:  17:28:57

Looked at my book after work. Gruhn knows more about vintage guitars and mandolins than anyone, so I am not doubting him. The book has some additional information.

"After four decades, F-4 production stopped just after the start of WWII, and although Gibson shipped four F-4s in 1944 and four more in 1948, they were just left over stock. The F-4 is considered one of the best mandolins Gibson ever made and they are still highly sought after by collectors." (page 142)

So I went back to the section on 1930-1939 instruments (page 121). It is a longer paragraph that I don't want to type, so I'll paraphrase.
- elimination of the fretboard extension in 1934; shorter length with rounded end with point in the middle, sometimes called a "scalloped end."
- only finish is sunburst with dark stained back, sides, and neck.
- eliminated the headstock binding and changed the flower pot inlay to a large diamand shaped inlay.
- the picture on page 121 has a regular rectangular, engraved "The Gibson" tailpiece.

So it could be that Jarred's mandolin is one of the last F-4s ever produced. And apparently by the early 40s, they were not doing the big diamond in the headstock, or would do either a flor-de-lis or fern depending on what the customer wanted. The tailpiece may have been replaced, or Gibson may have just stuck on whatever was available. Jarred, your mandolin is a nice piece of history, and I'll bet it sounds great.

Yooper - Posted - 02/22/2021:  17:50:59

Also, I noticed that Jarred's has headstock binding, which was supposed be gone in the 30s. But the one at the West shop that Patrick posted a link to has headstock binding too. That's Gibson.

Yooper - Posted - 02/23/2021:  11:15:06

The F4 at the West shop also has a standard tailpiece which is how the F-4 is shown in late 30s catologues. Even the F-7 and F-10 had the standard tailpiece. All of that makes me think that the one on Jarred's mandolin is a replacement. But with Gibson, you never know.