boringperson - Posted - 10/14/2014:  01:42:54

I hope I will be forgiven if I have posted this in the wrong forum but I imagine this to be a prevalent problem...

Although I have 'enjoyed' some pain in my major joints all my adult life I have had a sudden incidence of an intense pain in the first knuckle (i.e. closest to the body of my hand) of the middle finger of my left hand. It has become very swollen and I'm finding it increasingly difficult to flex my finger at all - exerting pressure on a string is getting to be difficult and pulling anything is so painful as to be practically impossible.

All this has happened in the course of a month or six weeks.

Just to make the picture complete I play 5-string banjo too and also play the cello a little.

Frankly I'm getting a little panicky thinking I might not be able to play henceforth so I 'd be very grateful for any advice, pointers or suggestions. But please, no horror stories - I need encouragement!

Many thanks in advance.

Mark

Susan H - Posted - 10/14/2014:  03:43:54

Hi Mark, first you may want to consult a doctor about this. But, it sounds like you might be pressing too hard on the strings. I tend to do that myself, and my knuckles hurt from time to time. Here's an exercise I teach to my students that I learned from someone else. Press the D string down until you get a good clean note, this will give you an idea of how much pressure to apply. Do this as you warm up with scales and arps, and do this slowly. As a one banjo picker to another, we tend to do things quickly, not always necessarily so with the mandolin. Again, let me stress consulting a doctor might be in your best interest. Good luck and happy picking.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 10/14/2014:  05:20:41

Over playing, pressing to hard, as SH pointed out is often the problem. The weather is changing in the northern hemisphere and that always speaks most loudly in my joints. The action ie set up on a mandolin is a point to look into also. With double courses and steel strings if a mandolin is not well set up it is a bear to play. You might want to look into a lighter gauge string also. The difference in gauge and tension between a banjo and a mandolin is dramatic. Anti inflammatory drugs and a medical consultation may be necessary at this point in time. Luck... R/

boringperson - Posted - 10/14/2014:  07:16:10

Thank you for your quick replies folks. I have a doctor's appointment booked but this will take a couple of weeks. I've had anti-inflammatory drugs before but their effect feels very limited.

I've been using ice and this does help a wee bit. Since posting this morning I have been advised by a violin teacher to try alternate cold and hot soaks - I'll give that a try this evening - but that Rest is Best...

We also spoke a little bit about hand position and I think you have both assessed my overenthusiastic grip very accurately! I think while I'm taking a forced hiatus I'll have to think through a new left hand position so that I can fret without applying the Vulcan Death Grip.

In the meantime, what am I going to do instead?

Mark

Susan H - Posted - 10/14/2014:  13:14:49

Rest your hands for a few days, and see how they feel. Still go to your doctor. Read Mandolin For Dummies...great resource, listen to lots of mandolin music and watch some videos on here! And Richard has the right idea about lighter gauge strings. I play a lighter gauge and that helps me. The best advise right now is listen to your doctor. And lighten up on your Vulcan Death Grip, man....

Susan

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 10/14/2014:  14:48:07

Chord forms their inversions and modes H-W-W-W-H-W-W What was that A9d7 again..... Keep your mind busy and your music will blossom from the invested thought and time ..... Luck.. R/

Donnie - Posted - 10/14/2014:  19:26:03

Going to the Dr. myself over pain, it might be arthritis, I've had tendonitis in my left fore-arm. This same Dr. helped me with some great stretching tech., that really worked. Hopefully, she'll be able to help with this too. Good luck Mark!

Rob Beck - Posted - 10/15/2014:  01:02:52

Hello Mark,

I'm not sure how long you have been playing the mandolin, but for years I was using the "wrong" left hand position.  A while ago I started to suffer from cramps in my left hand, but things became a lot easier for me when I tried adopting more of a "violin" like position for my left hand.  This video of Mike Marshall's explains it well (I think it is the correct video - no speakers on this PC!)

Rob

boringperson - Posted - 10/15/2014:  01:34:55

Gosh! Thanks everyone for your advice.

Rob - your right, that's a great little vid (aren't all of MM's?) and yes, I couch-slouch and noodle while I watch old Star Treks with the sound down. His left-hand position pointers are just what I needed to see and I think I need to work on that thumb position. Maybe I could sidle up to those violin teachers I met yesterday and get some free pointers. I'm not sure that my Death Grip has caused this problem but it certainly hasn't helped...

And thanks everyone else for your suggestions and sympathy. I'd already noticed that stretching helps temporarily but it's not lasting and I'm afraid it might be doing more harm than good. Analgesic gel (called Ibulieve in the UK and Ireland) is surprisingly good but again lasts only half an hour or so.

And keeping my mind busy just makes me want to get back to my instrument to try things out! Arrgh!

And finally, my confession: I tried to 'rest' last night but I succumbed for about twenty minutes. Oh boy! How am I going to stay away for a month?

Mark

Donnie - Posted - 10/17/2014:  17:30:18

The Dr. Rx'd Meloxicam, 7.5mg, twice a day for a week, then once a day till the pain eases. It's a good anti-inflamitory she said; it'll take a couple of days to kick in... Mark, I hear you, I'll try to rest from playing till Sunday Evening...MAYBE!

SteveZ - Posted - 10/18/2014:  06:53:10

An earlier post suggested lighter strings to help ease the pain. In addition to that, suggest that the action be lowered as well.  The expression "plays like butter" is often used to describe an instrument which is soft and quick to the touch, and having the instrument adjusted to that level means much less finger pressure is needed.  That takes a combination of string choice and appropriate action level.



Quite often folk will want to be as loud as some professional players, never fully realizing that the loudness is often due to the set-up of the instrument (action, string gauge, etc.) combined with the forcefulness of the play. The instrument set up for "loud play" is somewhat like a car set up for racetrack driving versus street driving (suspension adjustments, wheel tension, tire size, tread cut, etc.). The everyday street-driver would have a hard time driving a track car for any appreciable period, just as the average amateur mandolin player would find playing a pro-setup instrument a more strenuous experience over time.



So, setting up the instrument for "ease of play" instead of "loudness" or even "best tone" can be the difference between a strenuous experience and a fun time. Eventually, depending on increased skill and endurance, the instrument can be adjusted to be "louder" or "toned up" a bit., with the alternative being another instrument with a higher action and/or heavier strings.



So, making the instrument easier to play might make sense.

Edited by - SteveZ on 10/18/2014 06:56:54

tooltimegrunt - Posted - 01/22/2015:  07:04:20

Did you see the side effects of Meloxicam?

I'd recommend a herbal anti-inflammatory before a pharmaceutical. 

Dave S - Posted - 03/11/2015:  14:46:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by boringperson

 

Thank you for your quick replies folks. I have a doctor's appointment booked but this will take a couple of weeks. I've had anti-inflammatory drugs before but their effect feels very limited.

I've been using ice and this does help a wee bit. Since posting this morning I have been advised by a violin teacher to try alternate cold and hot soaks - I'll give that a try this evening - but that Rest is Best...

We also spoke a little bit about hand position and I think you have both assessed my overenthusiastic grip very accurately! I think while I'm taking a forced hiatus I'll have to think through a new left hand position so that I can fret without applying the Vulcan Death Grip.

In the meantime, what am I going to do instead?

Mark

---

What to do instead: this is a good excuse to work on the right hand.  Tremolo, arpeggios, string crossings, triplets, etc.  Open strings are a little ho-hum, but the more right-hand dev't, the better. When the left-hand R&R is over with, you'll be a better player.

Dave

k0k0peli - Posted - 05/24/2015:  07:09:18

I use horse linament. Works fine.