51-50 girl - Posted - 10/27/2013:  15:26:56

For the next week or so, I have possession of a Collings MT from a person who is trying to sell it.  They have given me a discounted price because of some scratches near the upper F hole area on the face.  The rest of the mando is in excellent shape for finish.

One scratch is deep, through the finish, 1 1/2" long,  and is quite noticeable, even from a distance.  A finger rubbed across the scratch reveals a high edge on one side of the scratch.  The others (3-4) are more bruising on the surface, not through the finish, and only noticeable when looking across the finish.

I don't know the age on this mando but the serial # is low 2500 range, Collings MT, if anyone can suggest an age.  I believe these sell for @$2500 +/- currently, and wondering how much it should be discounted because of the scratches?  Also, as a general rule, is it real pricey to correct this scratch if I end up buying the mando?  Thanks in advance for your advice.

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 10/28/2013:  05:22:59

With many players how a mandolin looks is of less importance than how it sounds and how it plays. Surface scratches can be repaired but it can be an expensive and labor intensive proposition. It depends on the finish and if the scratch goes into or through the stain. Is it a crack and not a scratch needs to be ascertained also. Cracks can also be repaired but lower the value of an instrument more than scratches. Pictures would help the forum on making an inforned "guess" at the instruments value....... Luck... R/

51-50 girl - Posted - 10/28/2013:  09:29:28

Richard, thx for reply.  I have photos on my home page and can't figure out how to get them to this topic.  The scratch is thru the stain but I cannot see a crack thru the wood on the edge of the F hole but cannot guarantee that it is not cracked rather than scratched.  It has the matte rather than high gloss finish.  If it is cracked rather than scratched, does the crack usually continue to get worse over time (like is there constant pressure on the wood face?) or is it just an appearance issue?  I think a little of the right kind of stain will make this disappear until you're up close and feel it and I think I could live with that.  Thanks for your time.

If the photos appear below, I think I figured it out  :-))

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 10/28/2013:  12:15:39

The best way to determine if it is cracked is to look inside the mandolin and check the inner wood grain. I see you are about twenty minutes from Portland. Your best bet would be to take the mandolin to a Luthier in town and get an estimate on any needed repair. A scratch is no big deal. A crack can lengthen and further damage the mandolin. THe way the scratch runs parallel to the grain makes it suspect. Better safe than sorry. I Googled luthiers in Portland and came up with a handful. Call around and I'm sure you will find someone willing to look at it. R/

Ben Venuti - Posted - 10/28/2013:  18:54:02

What are they asking? Picture 1 looks as if there may be a crack forming at the top of the FHole. Picture 2 looks like a scratch only. If the price is right and I bought that I would color in the crack/scratch with a little bit of stain or even one of those scratch repair sticks and I'd work a little glue into it -it doesn't appear to me that if it is a crack that it needs cleating or more and by the way if it needs a cleat you could do that yourself being so close to the opening . Maybe a bit of lacquer/varnish brushed on or maybe even not then I'd go out and play the crap out of it until I wore a hole through it with a pick. That could turn out to be a very nice player and if it's a good deal I'd jump on it if I were you. Unless of course your a MAS victim and you already have a room full of mandolins.

ErikForGod - Posted - 10/29/2013:  10:41:15

You mentioned the crack had a bit of a high edge which to me is a cause for some concern. It could be that it was a surface crack through the finish but possibly due to seasonal temp/weather changes with the swelling and contracting of the top it may be beginning to split in just the very top layers of the top. I think a mandolin like this is worth taking the finish down to see and if so, repairing it and refinishing, but you'd need someone who knows how to do a good job on it. If the original owner has it on warranty, why doesn't/didn't he just send it back to get fixed? If it's just a scratch I wouldn't worry to much. Can you stick a small dental mirror into the f-hole to see?
It looks like the mandolin was dropped on that corner or on it's side

51-50 girl - Posted - 10/29/2013:  22:27:33

OK, guys, here's what I've learned.  I took it to a repair shop and the mando guy took one look and said it was a crack and not a scratch.  If you leave it alone, chances are that the crack will extend to the edge and would be a major problem.  He could fix it now with a special superglue in the crack, clamp it, and chances are that would take care of the problem.  However, after glue has hardened, he would have to buff out the surface which would turn the matte finish to a shiny surface.  If I could live with that, I would probably never have another problem with it.  If appearance is a problem, he would have to refinish the entire face which he did not feel merited the cost.  He could fix the crack and dress a couple of frets for less than $200.

You can buy these new for $2250.  The seller has offered a discounted price of $1500 because of the surface "scratches".   The rest of the mando is in excellent shape and if it was dropped, it did not leave any sign anywhere else on the mando.  The tone on this mando is excellent.   I don't know what a normal (w/o any damage) selling price would be for these on the used market so I'm grasping in the dark. I wouldn't be overly concerned with the visual appearance but the structural integrity would be important to me.   I don't know why the owner hasn't taken it in for repair under warranty other than it is not a warranty issue.

I've been playing for 3 years and am more than a beginner and less than an intermediate player.  My birthday gift last year was a Northfield (to die for) that I use everyday and I would like a less expensive mandolin to use for everyday use and practice but that would still have good tone.   I don't have any other mandos in the closet and, like most other people, money is an issue.

I know this is a personal decision but I guess I'm looking to you guys who have bought and sold many instruments for your opinions as to whether this is a fair price or a walk away from deal under the circumstances.  Thanks for your input.

Ben Venuti - Posted - 10/29/2013:  23:29:08

Nice MT in Mandolin Cafe Classifieds $1650 --no issues--- A crack is a game changer at that price . A $200 repair makes it $1700. Maybe the seller would go down and with the now confirmed crack maybe quite a bit. If I were buying I'd expect that. If you can buy a new one for $2200 it's reasonable to expect a 20% loss in value right from the get go if you were to turn around and sell it even in pristine condition. It's used! Warranties only usually apply to the original owner and you have no clout with the dealer if your not the original owner so the value drops for that if for no other reason. Unless it is a difficult to obtain and a high demand instrument you always take a big loss as soon as you take it out the door. That means any used Collins MT is only worth about $1700 . Give it some scratches,some fret wear and it drops in value. Put a crack in it ,well there you go-- I'd offer maybe $1100,with the repairs that makes it $1300 which is really top dollar for that mandolin. By the way if the hang tag at a dealer says $2200 it's not $2200. I have never paid sticker price buying from a dealer, it's always negotiable or maybe you pay the full price but end up with a bunch of goodies like a bunch of sets of strings, an upgraded case, maybe a cool strap. Maybe the dealer absorbs the tax.  The good dealers understand the concept of Win/Win.

Edited by - Ben Venuti on 10/29/2013 23:50:49

ErikForGod - Posted - 10/31/2013:  10:49:03

Nice MT in Mandolin Cafe Classifieds $1650 --no issues--- A crack is a game changer at that price



I'm with Ben on this one, I think price is certainly much more negotiable at this point. I'd let it go, it's a crack, it can be repaired but it'll cost you $200 so like Ben said now you have $1700 invested in a lemon. I'd pull the trigger on the one that's pristine and used for $1650.

I dunno when it comes to cracks, that haven't been professionally repaired at that point it's turn off for me. I'd check with Collings and let them fix it, they'd have a better chance of matching up the finish and making it look like new, however, how much is that gonna cost yah? How long before you'd get it back from them. I'd go for the other one for $1650, if it get's sold and you still want this one I'd offer him $1300 because of the minimum $200 in repair work....but I'd personally wait and see if I could get the other one or even possibly find another used one up for grabs without cracks....jujst my gut. I had a feeling it was crack when you said it had a raised edge and if that thing runs all the way over to the binding it's a long crack at that. At least it's not across the grain, it's worse when it's that, but still...I'd let it go.

Edited by - ErikForGod on 10/31/2013 10:50:48

Ben Venuti - Posted - 10/31/2013:  13:01:07

At that price.....I don't think a properly repaired crack is that much of an issue---all those highly sought after vintage Martin guitars with that B string crack. All those old Gibson mandolins with Gibson disease( -the back pulling away from the ribs and the crack that often accompanies that-)- Fixed right they are still great instruments and sometimes fixed wrong they are still great instruments.. I just think it really changes the value compared to one without a crack. A clean MT used is worth about $1700 by my estimates. This one at $1500 is too high a price. The guy broke his mandolin, if he wants to sell it he has to bite the bullet. It's a Collings, it's going to sound good, might even blow you away. Might end up your favorite mandolin--sometimes that happens. I bought a Bernie Rico 1970's hand built dreadnaught and got it cheap (handmade Brazilian dread for less than a grand sounds cheap to me) to take some of the load off my Martin and it moved to the go-to guitar spot. Even if the guy paid for the repair, $1500 is still high. It should end up costing you at least a couple of hundred less than that. On the other hand I find that in this stuff a couple of hundred or a few hundred doesn't make that much difference. You can have them for years or a life time and that money would have gone for gasoline or some stupid thing that you though you needed that lasted minutes. If you like it and get it you wont remember the money sooner than you think but you'll have a cool thing.

51-50 girl - Posted - 10/31/2013:  17:33:17

Thank you for all the information and feedback......I decided not to purchase the mandolin. It just wasn't feeling like the right thing to do. I may regret this decision because I now have the fever for a MT. And, I keep thinking well what if..........
Again, thank you. I will be looking for the next love of my life for sure.

ErikForGod - Posted - 11/01/2013:  09:06:44

quote:

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Originally posted by 51-50 girl

 

Thank you for all the information and feedback......I decided not to purchase the mandolin. It just wasn't feeling like the right thing to do. I may regret this decision because I now have the fever for a MT. And, I keep thinking well what if..........

Again, thank you. I will be looking for the next love of my life for sure.

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You made the right decision...don't sweat it. Be a little patient and keep your eye's open and one will pop-up for sale here soon that will be pristine and at a good price as well. I think if you would've bought it you would have regretted it in the long run.