Drum58 - Posted - 05/19/2013:  15:09:45

Hi guys, I am a real newbie here, I've only been playing for 3 months.  I have got enough simple two and three finger chords down to play in a friendly bluegrass jam in several keys, but I want to move to the full bluegrass chords so I can really add to the jam.

First question:  How long did it take you to get the Four Fingered G chord down and to move quickly between the full bluegrass chop chords?  I know....practice, practice, practice...I get that, but it takes a lot of concentration and finger placement for me to get into the G chord, and there is no way I can move back and forth between G, C and D to participate in the jam.  Really...how long of diligent practice did it take for you all to get there?

Second question:  When I go bluegrass festivals and jams, there are mandolin players that can take blazing breaks when it comes around to them, even if they have never heard or played the song.  How are they doing that?  I asked one friendly guy and he said something like "I just play the 'words' (which I took to mean the straight melody line) and I keep my picking hand moving"  That didn't help a lot.  have these guys memorized these breaks?  Are they playing scales over chords, with a little melody thrown in?  Have they gotten so familiar with with the fretboard that they just intuitively know where the right notes are.  Interestingly, at a jam last night, the mandolin player took at lot of fairly decent breaks, but, several times he skipped his breaks because he 'didn't know the song'.  

I just want to get to the point, as quick as I can, where I can chop the bluegrass chords and take my lead breaks in bluegrass jams.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

TSSN - Posted - 05/20/2013:  04:10:20

Hello and welcome.

Early in my efforts at learning the mandolin, I was offerred the four-finger chop chords for G and D, which with the 3-finger C, can still be a transition that I hate.  Slow as molasses on C back to D, and it has been 10 years now...  Having said that... 

Played well, there is no shame in a well-done 3-finger chord.

As for the breaks on news songs part, I am not the one to help you.  I don't have the ability to create a nice break on a song I am just now hearing for the first time.  Knowing my chords and scales have helped me greatly to chop to almost anything and do some fills and tremolo accents in a brand new tune.  But the break, no.  There are books and camps designed to help with this, but I have not had the time to explore those. 

I'm sure better advice will follow here.  Good luck.

Rob Beck - Posted - 05/20/2013:  04:20:57

I've been working on chop chords for a could of years now, they are coming along, but not too quickly! One piece of advice that helped me was to get used to playing the "G" shape further up the neck, for example move it 2 frets up the neck so you are playing an A chord, the frets are a little closer together, making it less of a stretch.  Once you are comfortable playing and changing in the higher positions, try moving back down to the "G" position.

As for lead breaks, I'm afraid I'm not the guy to ask either!

slarkin - Posted - 05/20/2013:  05:00:16

Certainly don't consider myself an expert.  As a fellow learner, following are a couple of things that have helped me.

On the subject of chop chords, Roland White's book has some alternate 4 finger chords that chop nicely, are moveable, and work well for me.  I can avoid the pinky stretch and still play a full chop chord.  It is available on his website.

As for breaks, a really good mandolin player told us in a recent workshop (Peoria Il at Shorty's Bluegrass Festival) that if you start on the right note and end on the right note, everything in between is fair game as long as you are in key.  I have tested that theory, and it works when playing with better players who improvise.  If the person leading the song is expecting a repeat of the verse or chorus, not so much.  It depends on the type of jam you are playing.  I have found that if I can hit a few sequences that the listener recognizes, the rest doesn't matter if in key and Eureka, its is an improv.  .  

Texasbanjo - Posted - 05/20/2013:  05:36:49

Learning to improvise takes time, effort and lots of practice.  Start trying to pick out just melody notes to various songs.  When that's easy, try adding a littlescale or melodic run here and there to make it sound more bluegrassy. 

You'll find that there are "musical phrases" that will fit any number of songs and you can use those phrases for songs you're not familiar with.  That's the way people are able to improvise on a song they've never heard before:  they get the chord progression down and then use the phrases that fit those chords -- usually if you can figure out a basic melody, you can incorporate the phrases that you've learned and have a pretty good break by the time you get the nod.

Drum58 - Posted - 05/22/2013:  16:00:00

Thanks to one and all for the good advice and tips.  I will put it all to good use.

nathanCox - Posted - 07/06/2013:  13:28:59

When it comes to chords the easiest thing ive found to do for learning a 4 fingered G is start by just sticking your pinky on the fretboard. it doesnt matter where, just put it on somewhere while your chopping. it wont effect the sound of your chop, because your not actually pressing down on the strings. once you feel comfortable with it up there slowly start easing it up towards that 7th fret. soon you will not even realize you are stretching your pinky at all. it will come very naturally. try to at least form the 4 finger G chord 2 or 3 times a day, and hold it there for about a minute each time. When transitioning from the G to the C, simply move the whole position up one string. and let your pinky rest on the E string. make this transition a cuople times and you will realize the only Finger move is your pinky. the other finger movements are really a movement of the wrist moving down towards the ground. Try moving your wrist in the direction of the ground slowly while resting your fingers in the G position on the fretboard and keeping your thumb in the same spot, you will notice that they naturally want to move into the C position.

Edited by - nathanCox on 07/06/2013 13:30:58