kbone - Posted - 10/31/2012:  07:32:14

I've been playing since the late nineties, even have a jam at my place monthly, but hrs and hrs of practice and still right hand issues, many times feel like putting my mandolin up for sale. The problems ? Well first off I started with bad tech, think Sam Bush, all arm, with very flex with wrist. I've read everything, videos you name it, and have put so many hrs just trying to re learn with a loose wrist. The problem is the tension in my forearm that goes right to my shoulder, even if I'm just moving my wrist only and going very slow, just can't seem to get that tension out, really strange. any advise appreciated/sometimes I feel it's just not meant to be./Keith

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 10/31/2012:  17:35:26

How hard are you holding your pick? If you don't drop it once in awhile you are holding it too tightly. Are you holding it at 90' to your thumb? Tension starts in the hand and goes up the arm. Watch some Tim O'Brien on YouTube.....l Luck R/

Donnie - Posted - 10/31/2012:  19:13:34

I've found that practice has brought me to the point wear the pick "flops" between my thumb and finger, that makes a really good trem. tech. It only took one run in with Tennis Elbow (pain was so bad in my right fore-arm I couldn't even lift a coffee cup!), to learn to quit grip'n the pick so hard. I also let my wrist do the work not my elbow.

kbone - Posted - 11/01/2012:  03:46:16

My grip is very loose, everything looks right, but even if I go very slow there's tension that goes up my forearm, I've wondered if it's a physical thing some how, all the mechanic look right. You have to realize I've been at this a number of yrs, just very puzzling/ Thanks

Donnie - Posted - 11/02/2012:  11:36:25

kbone... sounds like Tennis Elbow- tendenitis, go on-line, there are very good- needful excersises you can do, there are those band type braces that help too. I'd hate to think you'd have to give up playing Brother!

Mandolin Ant - Posted - 11/07/2012:  10:14:19

I hear you guys. Had the Tennis Elbow thing myself more than once. Now before I play, I have to tell myself to relax. It really works. Just tell yourself to relax right before you play and it makes you more aware.

Loarcutus - Posted - 11/16/2012:  16:42:49

Kbone,

I feel your pain....it took me over 8 months to a year to get a flexible enough wrist action to where now I have the speed (still working on precision) that I craved since picking up the mando 19 months ago. I finally broke the plateau of wrist "looseness"...there are some passive stretch exercises that I did, along with some active motion wrist movements that emulated Monroe's wrist action, and a lot of visualization on my part while I engaged in trying to carry out that motion. My wrists by nature are extremely tight (from Bodybuilding years ago). If I can be of help email me offline - javavbnick@yahoo.com, and we can exchange contact info to perhaps talk out the process that I used to at least "get on the other side" of this wrist thing.

Mike Shipman - Posted - 12/05/2012:  03:29:58

Hi kbone - Ive also had problems similar to those mentioned here, its not good! Ive found that holding my mandolin up higher on my chest so that my right arm from the elbow through to the wrist and hand are all in a straight line with the mando neck and then with the lower part of my wrist gently resting on the strings between the tailpiece and bridge that Im able to pivot my wrist to strum and play single note runs with far less pain and discomfort than before.My problem these days is the pain i get in the joint at the base of my left thumb, but then I have lots of joint problems elsewhere courtesy of arthritis - I just keep taking the painkillers!

Hope you are able to get more comfortable - and dont give it up!

Cheers Mike

Loarcutus - Posted - 03/18/2013:  09:54:37

Kbone,

How's the right hand coming? My email got hacked, so it's no good.

Here's my new email address, LMK how it's going....baptistgrass@gmail.com

Loarcutus - Posted - 03/18/2013:  09:55:19

email is

baptistgrass@gmail.com

swamplunker - Posted - 07/10/2013:  18:52:27

I would try taking the elbow movement out of it completely for a while by resting the base of your palm on the strings to the tailpiece side of the bridge, to make your wrist and fingers the only moving parts.I was watching Nokie Edwards of the Ventures in 1981, he was doing it,his wrist was moving around like a fish while his elbow rested , been doin' it ever since, and it applies to mandolins as much as Mosrites.And now I see Mike Shipman said this already,he's right ,even if he is from England. Not just to eliminate pain, also for speed and precision in single note runs.Now you heard it from both sides of the pond.

kbone - Posted - 11/20/2013:  09:43:01

quote:

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Originally posted by Loarcutus

 

Kbone,

How's the right hand coming? My email got hacked, so it's no good.

Here's my new email address, LMK how it's going....baptistgrass@gmail.com

 Well sorry it took me so long to respond, last January I got hit with neuropathy by a flu virus so that compounded the problem & what has helped as strange as it might sound is a herco thumbpick, that has a flatpick teardrop end, it's helped my righthand with the wrist movement and I don't drop the pick all the time due to the neuropathy/thansk for asking

 

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fitzy - Posted - 12/01/2013:  13:04:07

Hi guys yep have this problem also.both with mandolin and tenor banjo. I have read the repla. And there us some cracking ideas there! tennis elbow?? Sounds like that's my problem alright. just wanted to say thanks for starting this topic hope it getting somewhere with right hand.

ErikForGod - Posted - 12/13/2013:  09:04:41

tension is the enemy, especially with the mandolin. I wouldn't even focus on the left hand, just start by playing a basic strumming motion ( granted you're holding the pick correctly, nice and loose while making a slight "fist" ) If you have a smooth strumming motion without tension, then the picking is the same just a smaller eliptical motion because you are only picking between a few strings as opposed to all of them. Use a tremolo and just relax your whole arm and pick grip. This whole thing is mental, you have to think it out and make yourself do it until eventually it's automatic. Don't worry about speed either, just set the metronome nice and slow and pick up and down nice and slow over and over and over and keep repeating. 

You've been playing a long time so it's sounds like the frustration is coming from trying to unlearn some bad habits or a way of playing that really wasn't for you. But, it can be done, with patience and determination. I personally don't like Sam Bush's playing technique. I know it works for him and he's a great player but I wouldn't teach the way he plays if I taught ( even though I don't ) 

Edited by - ErikForGod on 12/13/2013 09:07:02

fitzy - Posted - 12/13/2013:  12:55:43

Goodman sound advice there.MENTAL is the right word there!I llove my music which is why I have no problem practicing 2 hours atleast every night! When I'm of work I could ppractice for 4or5 hours easy! Nit guilty at times cause. Could be doin work around da house! but music is my thing and that's just the way it is!

abinigia - Posted - 12/14/2013:  10:30:11

How do you hold your right arm? You said you move it a lot. Generally, unless you're Sam Bush, that's not a good idea. It helps a lot to have your arm come in over the end pin and across the bridge horizontally, if you're not doing that already. Then you can move a bit at your elbow and your wrist should be free to make rotational movements, not just up and down, like you're shaking it lightly from your elbow.

Very little shoulder movement if any.

 

fitzy - Posted - 12/14/2013:  10:35:32

Ya have been practicing the sound advice and there us little to no movement from arm now! All wrist work!sayin that! the second I pic up my tenor banjo the movement comes back! am also thinkin because of this that I might pack in garbanzo for a good while?best thing I think?

Noto - Posted - 12/20/2013:  07:57:03

Spending a few dollars on guidance from an experienced teacher might speed the process as well.

ErikForGod - Posted - 12/26/2013:  04:19:32

quote:

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Originally posted by Noto

 

Spending a few dollars on guidance from an experienced teacher might speed the process as well.

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This is some good advice however its tough unlearning bad stuff but it can be done. I would go straight back to basics, holding the pick, loose fist, and get a metronome and just play alternative picking strokes up and down in between open strings..rrreeeaaallly slowly. You may have to forego the jams for a good while as youre relearning everything. The jams will tempt you to revert to the old style...

fitzy - Posted - 12/26/2013:  04:26:53

Exactly. My wife got me Chris thiles DVD fir Xmas and he really sticks the point if a loose hold.! I've spent few hours yest doin this. it is hard haha nit to bust straight in Der to a tune!but slow loose n easy is the way and it Wil pay If!

Victoria - Posted - 04/15/2014:  05:49:41

It is hard to get a real loose wrist..... I am trying to do the SAME thing right now. Keep workin' at it! You'll get it. 

OregonGal - Posted - 04/25/2014:  15:39:41

Works for mandolin - To keep their wrists loose, fiddle players relax their hands and shake them back and forth "gently" at the wrists - it works for me before I start. And, a few finger exercises help to loosen them up too - touch each finger to your thumb, in order 1st finger to thumb and work on to your pinkie and then go back the other way - very helpful. Do this every 5-10 minutes to remind yourself, or more if you need it. Don't give up - you can do it. -  "68 year old fingers" knows this is possible.

SteveZ - Posted - 04/26/2014:  07:05:29

Do you have an armrest on your mandolin?  A decent armrest (I prefer the McClung) essentially locks your elbow in place and slightly changes your arm angle.  As a result the wrist gets more involved than the arm. 

TeachinMandolin444 - Posted - 06/21/2014:  07:34:11

A thumbpick (I love Zookies!) will eliminate the holding the pick too tight thing. I play 99% of the time with a thumbpick.