Maineiac - Posted - 02/28/2012:  10:01:02

Howdy from the frozen north.  Over the last few months I've gotten back into music after almost 40 years absence.  I find the onliest thing I remember is how to read music.  Helpful.  Played trumpet, guitar and lap steel years ago.  Wish I'd never sold the J-45 for the trip to FL in '77. 

Anyways, I figgered out Tennessee Stud on a friend's mandolin while visiting family in Humboldt County, CA.  Loved it.  Taking weekly lessons on banjo and guitar (and bass) and my banjo instructor is also an accomplished mandolinist. My excuse for all this is I'm doing it for the kids around the farm.  To get them interested without doing it as a forced march.

Going to look at what appears to be a real, real purty 1921 Gibson A.  Period.  A.  Nothing more. Figured out the serial number stuff and what to look for by lurking and surfing the net.  The mandolin looks really, really good in photos. 

My cursory research indicates that the $1,495 asking price appears quite high.  Original case, fixed bridge (probably replacement?).  Bound top, hole and one loop of purfling.  No "The Gib" on the paddle style headstock.

Thing is, the guy also has a MINT 1941 RickenbacHer (pre-addition of the "k") lap steel he wants $795 for.  I want both.  I've seen the Ricks go as high as $1100, with astronomical asking prices.  But also as low as $500 or less.  (Bear with me, all part of my strategizing).  

So the total asking price for the pair is $2,290.  Feels awful high.  I'm beginning my "collecting" thing.  Keeps me out of trouble according to the wife.  For beginning this enterprise, I sold my sailboat, the proceeds of which form of transaction are always dedicated to further recreational pursuits. 

I like the idea of two things being purchased.  I know a guy with a 1967 Fender Bassman, for example, a Rickenbacker JL355 limited edition (1989), a 1973 Gibson Ripper bass, a 1970 Triumph Trophy and a mint old Epiphone 250 banjo. I intend to go to him with a fistfull of $100's (when I can) and let him figure out what I paid him for the Rickenbacker.  Bulk sale only.  Makes it easier for someone to justify individual prices in their mind.

Back to the Gibson A.  No truss rod, purported dead straight neck, no repairs, unworn keyboard, original pick guard and "patented" pick guard brace.  The back of this thing glows.  "Original" case.   I'm looking for opinions here, given what I've related.  I'm just starting with the mandolin, but I've also got this "collecting" bug.  I feel like I'd be under water at the asking price, but kicking it downward a few hundred might work.  But I don't see any "A"s going for over $1000 out there.  Unless its an A3 or A4 they seem to not get above a grand.  But this thing appears to be on the order of "excellent minus." 

Please pardon the windy diatribe.  Just dumping after lurking for so very long.   Whatcha tink? 

Ben Venuti - Posted - 02/28/2012:  14:29:02

A pre truss rod straight A can be had for as little as $400. I track every Gibson that hits ebay and others from dealers and I can promise you that no Plain A has sold for as high as $1000 on ebay for at least a year.Average is probably about $800 these days You can find an A-1 or an A-2 for that price and probably for less than that.. You might even stumble on an A-4 or 3 for that price. That kind of price might be seen from a top dealer but they are offering something quite different. They can correct any problems that you may discover for example. The have the resources and the ability to offer that and they will almost certainly have set it up correctly before you ever got to the store. On line they can give you a grace period and they will honor it. I also think the dealers are behind the curve as to what is going on --kind of a denial thing maybe. If they start lowering prices then where does it stop?. Their prices are high and you can come back in 6 months and the thing is still there. Your not underwater at that price for that mandolin your way underwater at about double it's value. On the other hand at that price it's still better than probably anything you can buy new at that price. The thing about A model Gibson's --there really are scads of them out there- If the two items work for you then fine but the asking price for the Gibson is way high.

Maineiac - Posted - 02/28/2012:  18:00:12

Affirmative. I figured eight maybe, given condition, but still, I do like the lap steel. That seems a tad high, too, but I ain't gonna buy without feeling first, and I haven't seen a decent mandolin or lap steel north of Boston in quite awhile. Handmade alternatives are out there here (for mandolins) where the red spruce and sugar maple grows. At about the same price.

If they're better than anything new at that price, then what? Which price? The $1495 or the $800.00? Save up and step over the line? For now I'd just like to have a nice, easy playing, well set up mandolin for personal entertainment, and I don't mind spending an equivalent amount for something old that might go up in value if I'm easy on it. I like old. I'm getting used to old. But aye ain' crazy. Well, not any more.

Ben Venuti - Posted - 02/28/2012:  19:32:54

I'm saying the $1500 price --old A model Gibson's rock and they are a terrific deal!

Maineiac - Posted - 02/29/2012:  05:48:51

Thanks. I really appreciate the guidance. Now . . . if I can . . . just . . . resist . . . assimilation . . . and make a reasonable offer and not worry about hurting anyone's feelings. I'm terrible in these situations, but learning from my sons, who are straightforward and viciously firm with their offers to buy various things. Salespeople used to be able to walk all over me because I could be suckered by a sob story and talked into paying too much. No more. The lap steel is in the righ range, and I'll pay a fair price for that. After I take a magnifying glass and flashlight to every seam and grain on the Gibson, I'll consider what its worth to me played against alternatives. There's one for $1100 (that doesn't appear to be in as good condition) that's identical in the Boston area. Both with "original" cases, etc. There's $400 less right there. I'm working off the assumption that BOTH would see a luthier upon purchase. Some of the dealers seem to be dipping into the private smoking stock with their prices on nearly everything.

mojohand40 - Posted - 02/29/2012:  06:30:16

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maineiac



....snip...

Thing is, the guy also has a MINT 1941 RickenbacHer (pre-addition of the "k") lap steel he wants $795 for.  I want both.  I've seen the Ricks go as high as $1100, with astronomical asking prices.  But also as low as $500 or less.  (Bear with me, all part of my strategizing).  

...snip...

---

I don't know enough about Gibson A's to really comment, but the 41 Ricky could be a good deal. Is it  Bakelite? If so, and the "tuxedo" style (B6) with all the white plastic pieces intact? Or does it have metal plates (probally, as I think the earlier ones did, and the whitre plastic was because of scarcity of metals during the war)... anyway,   It's hard to say, I've seen some go for as high as 2k , some for 1100, just depends on who wants it. Anything under a grand is a fair price on one of those Bakelite beauties. 

Those are some great lap steels.  I have an old Ricky Electro, but it's only from 1975  (it's one of my favorites steels) I do have a late 40's Vega lap steel, though. I'm not really into vintage instruments, but there is something about vintage steels that intrigues me.

If you do get the steel, come back and post some pics and tell us about it.

Maineiac - Posted - 02/29/2012:  08:21:24

The Rick is a B6. I'll figure out how to post photos when I have more time. The seller sent me megafiles that need to be resized. But REAL good for "zooming in." I even read the serial number out of the sound hole on the mandolin. Definitely 1921.

The plates look curiously plastic and flat, unlike the contoured plates I see in all other representations. It's a 1941, so right in the middle of WWII. I'm glad you told me they used plastic. Didn't find or see that anywhere in any of the reference materials. I assumed they were latter day replacements for dented metal covers. The only other issue is that the tuner buttons have been replaced with squared blocks of what looks like mahogany. I had a Supro years ago where the buttons just disintegrated into powder. Easily rectified with a call to Stewmac. Otherwise, the thing appears to be in excellent shape with the original case. Got a blizzard coming tomorrow, so won't get down to look at them until Friday.

mark-o - Posted - 02/29/2012:  14:56:41

If the Ric is a B6 bakelite with the big horseshoe magnet and it is in good shape that seems to be a very good price.

If it has the slightly smaller horseshoe pickup... heck, that is still a pretty good price.

Bakelite Rics are very much in demand among Hawaiian players and they are getting pretty collectable, particularly the 7 stringers (if you can find one.)

I wish I had one, tho I do have a '37 Silver Hawaiian that sounds great. The heavier solid body of the B6 gives them huge tone.

As far as the mando goes-- I think the guys here have it right. Sounds a tad steep

Looking forward to seeing those pix.

And check out the Steel Guitar forum for info on Rics.

Good luck!

Maineiac - Posted - 02/29/2012:  17:51:24

Yes, it's a tuxedo bakelite with a 1.5" magnet. I'm just trying to justify in my mind a "package deal" for both the Rick and the Gibson that will work in the seller's mind. As in my example, above, if I'm maybe willing to pay a little more for the Rick (in MY mind), maybe I can get him down some on the Gibson. Offer him $X.00 for both. Then we both happee. Since this is the first Rick within 500 miles I've found, it's easier to justify an elevated price, since it's only 2 hours away, no shipping, no buying sight unseen. I'm still not convinced flEabay is a great idea. Craigslist is bad enough. Can't bring myself to set up an account. So I stick with what's geographically practical. Thanks for all the info guys.

Maineiac - Posted - 03/02/2012:  06:10:11

Weeeeeellll, I'm making the 5 hour round trip to see about the Gibson A and the RickebacHer B6 today. The seller has given me first look/purchase status. Helluva snowstorm overnight and the roads ain't that great. Long drive. I'm taking cash for waving and holding my ground. Gotta go to the banjo lesson at 10:00 AM first, though, which allows me to run it by the banjo/mando instructor on the 'puter first. Wish me luck and tempered negotiation skills. I really want BOTH of these beauties. Which is extremely dangerous. I want a plow truck right about now, too, but priorities dictate.

Maineiac - Posted - 03/02/2012:  16:27:14

Trigger was pult. I paid $100.00 for the Gibson A and $1900 for the Rickenbacher. Or $200.00 for the Gibson A and $1800 for the Rickebacher. Or $2000 for the Rickebacher and he threw in the Gibson for free. Both with original cases, handles intact, typical scuffs and wears.  However you look at it, I'm pleased, and I couldn't get him a penny below $2000 for both. He even made me show him my wallet. Wife gave me the fixed allowance, plus tolls, and I have $1.75 left. I wouldn't give him the $5 bill I needed for the I-95 toll robbers. I was ready to walk with the Rick at the asking price and he dithered awhile and said "gimme." Real, real nice guy. Both are mint, except for a little corrosion on the bronze brace fitting on the pickguard bracket on the Gibson and the Rickenbacher has some block wooden tuning keys. From the looks of it, it's because the thing wasn't touched for decades and the original key buttons powdered away. Easily rectified with a visit to Stewmac's website. The Rick has the contoured metal covers (white) that it should have. Beautiful. He plugged the Rick into a Marshall full stack and wound it up. Nice. Whew! I feel like I'm not a virgin collector any more. Wrung out. And the wife is mysteriously quiet, but we'll go get a portable dishwasher tomorrow and everything'll be hunky dory. I'll post photos when I can.  Oh, and the Gibson sounds lovely to my inexperienced ear. 

Edited by - Maineiac on 03/02/2012 16:31:17

mojohand40 - Posted - 03/02/2012:  17:42:47

Congrats! Sounds like a good deal. I don't really consider myself a collector, but I got a LOT of instruments I've amassed over the years..for instance steel guitars alone: besides my pedal steel, I have eight lap steels...

the secret?

..never....ever....I mean NEVER.....

..let your wife see your whole collection at once...

heh-heh.

Ben Venuti - Posted - 03/02/2012:  20:26:41

Whether you got a good deal or not doesn't matter. You wanted them and you got them, that's what counts. It helps to have an understanding wife. Every so often I'll turn to my wife and say "I found it!" and her response will be "Why don't you buy it, you'll have it for the rest of your life." Once at a show I stumbled on a mandocaster and it was like --"I found it!
It was also right when we were buying the house and literally shaking out the piggy bank. Then it was "And I can't have it!" A couple of years later my wife bought me one for Christmas, it was a total surprise too! The thing about spending money for this kind of thing is that money is of no actual use and if you don't buy the thing and try and hold onto the money something will come up, (and almost always something that doesn't deserve it) and take the money away from you and ---- then you have no money and no thing you care about. . Have fun with your new toys!