un5trung - Posted - 12/31/2010:  08:10:39

The subject line is excerpted from another thread, and I started to write this question at its original mention when I realized that doing so would hijack a discussion of seventh chords.

So, the question: can anyone point me to a resource -- printed or online -- that offers a clear and concise explication of the circle of fifths? Yes, one can play any number of stringed instruments without even knowing the term, but in lieu of actually being able to play any instrument well I'd at least like to be able to bring up the circle of fifths at a cocktail party.

Kidding. I don't go to cocktail parties. But I would like to be able to apply the circle of fifths to understand what I'm doing when I'm not online asking about the less mundane elements of musicianship.

Edited by - un5trung on 01/02/2011 07:10:26

Jim Yates - Posted - 12/31/2010:  08:23:30

mandolessons.com/lessons/musictheory.html about half way down the page.

un5trung - Posted - 12/31/2010:  09:23:50

Thanks -- that site looks useful all the way 'round.

fairportmando - Posted - 12/31/2010:  10:27:59

Thanks for the link. It all looks like very useful information.

dmiller - Posted - 12/31/2010:  19:44:49

Thanks for that link Jim! Here's the pertinent info quoted from that site,
about the circle of fifths and "mandolin compatibility".

quote:

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The Circle Of Fifths

Possibly the most important structure in music theory, the circle of fifths ties all of the notes, chords, and scales together by relating them to one another.





Again, this is a lot of information all at once, so don’t feel like you need to learn it all at once. Looking at this larger circular jumble of information, it is best to break it down into sections.

The first thing to notice is that, when you follow the outermost letters clockwise, they are all separated by perfect fifths, C to G, G to D, etc. Following the circle counterclockwise, the progression moves in fourths, C to F, F to Bb, etc.

As a practical tool, lets say we wanted to play a song in A. To figure out what chords to play, you already know that you want the I, IV, and V. Looking at the circle of fifths, find the A. Your fourth will be one step counterclockwise from your A, and your fifth will be one step clockwise from your A.

The next section of the circle is the inner circle. The inner circle deals with relative minors. As you have learned, each scale has a number of sharps or flats, or, in the case of C major, no sharps or flats. When it comes to minor scales, it is the same, with Am being the scale with no sharps or flats.

From this information we can discover that both C and Am use the same notes. the C scale is C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. The Am scale is A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A. There are no sharps or flats in either scale. One way of looking at it is, to play the Am scale, you play the notes of a C scale but rather than starting on the C note, you start on the A note. As another example, the key of D consists of the notes D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D.

The relative minor of D is Bm, which has the notes B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, B. One easy way to find the relative minor of a key is to count backwards two notes. For example, counting backwards two notes on the A major scale gives you A, G# (Ab), F#. Therefore, your relative minor of A is F#m. Understanding the theory behind relative minors simplifies music even farther by reducing the number of scales you need to know.

Rather than picking around until you get all the notes of the Dm scale, play your F major scale but start on the D note of the scale, giving you D, E, F, G, A, Bb, C, D.

Putting All Of This Into Terms On The Mandolin

"So," you may be asking, or shouting at, or pleading with me, "What does all this abstract information actually have to do with anything". Well, that is a very interesting question with an even more interesting answer. In, the long run, nothing. Ideally, you should get so comfortable with all this information that you forget you ever learned it and it becomes second nature to your playing.

The fundamentals of music theory can be hard to grasp, but they will improve the way you think about and play music in ways you cannot imagine. Knowing the information above will help you connect everything you play on the mandolin with everything else you play on the mandolin and any other instrument, including singing. Knowing your scale theory will help you play in different keys, and your interval theory will help your overall ability to play on the fretboard, whether you are playing a simple scale on the first few frets or a crazy blues solo up above the 15th fret on your highest string. It will also help you stay grounded when the basics of theory come up (as it inevitably will) in my lessons.

Because the mandolin is tuned in fifths (G to D, D to A, A to E), every pattern you learn or come across can be transposed up, down, and across strings to any key with relative ease. Unlike many guitar players, good mandolin players do not need to rely on capos to play in some funny keys like B.

© 2010 MandoLess

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Fstpicker - Posted - 12/31/2010:  22:20:26

Very helpful information!! I learned a lot just by reading the above. I know some of it, but never understood when some musicians would say to play the I, IV, & V chords on a song. Never made sense until now. Very cool!!

Jeff

claybanjo - Posted - 01/02/2011:  07:24:32

I copied this to digest later on Thanks

Flivver - Posted - 01/04/2011:  21:26:36

Something I have found helpful is this little ditty taught to me a couple years ago:

Sharps: Father Charlie Goes Down And Ends Battle

Flats: Battle Ends And Down Goes Charlie's Father

un5trung - Posted - 01/05/2011:  05:16:40

That's great Flivver, thanks! "Every Good Boy . . ." has stuck with me all these years, now I have a mnemonic for the circle of fifths. Appreciate it!

fiddlepogo - Posted - 01/05/2011:  16:18:18

Lessee....
since the mandolin is tuned in fifths,
the open strings (or actually pairs of strings) give you one third of the circle,
G, D, A, E,
then go up four frets and the notes on the fourth fret, by string pairs, are:
B, Gb, Db, Ab,
then go up four more frets,
and the notes on the eighth fret, by string pairs, are:
Eb, Bb, F, & C.

Philphool - Posted - 01/06/2011:  05:18:41

Maybe this is more than you want to know, but I'll share anyway.
I've found the COF (circle of 5ths) VERY helpful in anticipating chord sequences in songs. Once you get beyond the everyday I - IV - V songs, you'll find the COF everywhere.

In songs that go to the 2nd (playing in key of G, song going to the A chord), it will 99% of the time next go to the V chord (D in example). Swing songs in G often have the sequence: G>B>E>A>D>G . See the COFs?? In some songs, some of those chords may be major and others minor, and they vary from song to song.

Jazz uses a lot of this. ii-V-I. What is that but COFs? Chord substitutions may occur and there (especially in jazz) may be stepping stones between the COF chords, like i#dim chords and augmented chords and others.

Some songs don't jump from I to III (G to B), but start with a shortcut, just G to E. (I to VI) and then resume the COF sequence : G>E> A>D>G.

Not every song will follow this pattern, obviously. But there seems to be a TENDENCY towards this pattern in general. It always is a good guess that if you play an A chord that the next chord will be D, not always, but still a good guess.

Just food for thought.
Keep pickin' and keep thinking.