5-String Horn - Posted - 11/18/2014:  12:50:20

I've been following a few of the threads regarding the mando chop.  I was previously under the impression that the "chop" is the mando version of the banjo "vamp" except the "vamp" is the 'boom' and the "chop" is the 'chick'.  Is it that simple or is there more to the "chop" then just rhythm and place holding???

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 11/18/2014:  13:16:46

The CHOP in Bluegrass mandolin playing picks up the back beat called off beat by some ..... like a snare drum ... like the Pa in an Om-Pa German polka band. That's what it's purpose is. -chop-chop-chop-chop in an eight beat measure. Different players allow more and less chord ring in their chop according to their personal tonal likes but it remains a back beat emphasis. R/

UsuallyPickin - Posted - 11/18/2014:  15:58:14

I meant to add I know little of banjo. So any analogy or comparison is lost on me. R/

Jim Yates - Posted - 11/19/2014:  00:40:04

Banjo also vamps on the back beat.

Each of these instruments emphasize the red bold counts.  The guitar plays a bass note on the down beat and a chord on the back beat.  There are, of course exceptions.  Banjo and mandolin don't often vamp/chop at the same time.

Mandolin  1   &   2   &   3   &   4   &

Banjo       1   &   2   &   3   &   4   &

Bass         1   &   2   &   3   &   4   &

Guitar       1   &   2   &   3   &   4   &

Donnie - Posted - 11/19/2014:  14:20:10

What Richard and Jim said, pretty much covers it. I do think you have to listen to the "feel" or "meter" of the song. Even though the Mando chop "drives the bus," it can be over done, in other words, know when to lay back on the volume. I've played with mando players that cover up the lead breaks of the guitar player, to the point of not being able to hear and follow the melody line that's being laid down. Practice volume controll as much as the licks, and you'll be welcome in any circle.

Peter Summers - Posted - 11/20/2014:  09:42:01

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but the mandolin chop is played by a quick chord that is immediately dampened by releasing finger pressure on the strings so it gives the effect of the top hat cymbal on the off beat. The boom-chick bass, as I understand it, is the common 2/4 or 4/4 bass line in most popular music including country, old-time, bluegrass, jazz, ragtime, march time, rock, etc. 

5-String Horn - Posted - 11/20/2014:  18:53:29

Hey . . . thanx for all the input. I was incorrect as to the vamp being the boom. It is the chick or pa portion. Not sure what I was thinking. I seem to be having more difficulty controlling the resonance/dampening portion then I thought I would, especially in what I believe is called the C-chop form (C chord shape up&down the neck). Sorry folks, still learning' Mando-ese.

Donnie - Posted - 11/21/2014:  07:59:22

5-String, you'll be fine, it'll all become natural to you as time goes by. Keep play'n and above all have HAVE FUN WITH IT!

bradlaird - Posted - 11/21/2014:  08:19:08

5-String Horn:

The other information put here is a very accurate in my opinion. However, since I have 2 cents rattling around in my pocket, I might as well toss them on the table...

While I agree that 99% of the time a mandolin "chop" is played on the offbeat (opposite the bass as Jim so ably charted) the word "chop" itself doesn't mean that it must be an offbeat. To "chop" is more about the duration of the chord, which you obvioiusly understand. In other words, it is entirely possible to "chop" on the beats too! In fact, in those mid-tempo, blues-type bluegrass tunes I often chop on downbeats and offbeats. Maybe not at the same volume, but maybe like chop-CHOP-chop-CHOP. So, to me "chop" is the sound and technique of the chord, not just its placement in time.

Next, concerning the word "vamp", this term is even muddier. I think the term arose with jazz players and it indicates repetition moreso than downbeat or offbeat (backbeat, upbeat). In other words, to "vamp" would mean to repeat some phrase, lick, snatch of melody, or chord "lick." Yes, in bluegrass circles it has come to be the term used by banjo players to mean "chopping" offbeat chords. But, I think they would be better served by reserving the word vamp to the repetition connotation. A great example of a "vamp" in action, which many of you are probably familiar with, is the "chord lick" played at the start, and in between all solos, of the tune "Lonesome Fiddle Blues." It is that "thing" when the entire band plays a Dm and a C chord back a forth in a particular rhythm. Here is a good example of that vamp in that tune: youtube.com/watch?v=ZarY4OBcaEw Not everyone uses the "vamp" in their arrangement but most folks do. A "vamp", such as that, is often used as a repetitious pattern over which a soloist may freely jam over--sometimes for a quite long time.

Another decent example of a vamp in action is at the start of each repetition of my tune McDonough, right here on the ol' MandoHangout jukebox: mandohangout.com/myhangout/med...archived=

If that doesn't make perfect sense I suggest that you watch THIS! There is a lot of truth in the seeming non-sense of Barry Scmaltz. Brilliant really... youtube.com/watch?v=zvxlS2r714s Have fun!

bradlaird - Posted - 11/21/2014:  08:20:53

Sorry, Barry, I didn't mean to spell your name wrong. Schmaltz is what I tried to type.

m - Posted - 11/21/2014:  11:21:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by bradlaird

 

5-String Horn:

The other information put here is a very accurate in my opinion. However, since I have 2 cents rattling around in my pocket, I might as well toss them on the table...

While I agree that 99% of the time a mandolin "chop" is played on the offbeat (opposite the bass as Jim so ably charted) the word "chop" itself doesn't mean that it must be an offbeat. To "chop" is more about the duration of the chord, which you obvioiusly understand. In other words, it is entirely possible to "chop" on the beats too! In fact, in those mid-tempo, blues-type bluegrass tunes I often chop on downbeats and offbeats. Maybe not at the same volume, but maybe like chop-CHOP-chop-CHOP. So, to me "chop" is the sound and technique of the chord, not just its placement in time.

Next, concerning the word "vamp", this term is even muddier. I think the term arose with jazz players and it indicates repetition moreso than downbeat or offbeat (backbeat, upbeat). In other words, to "vamp" would mean to repeat some phrase, lick, snatch of melody, or chord "lick." Yes, in bluegrass circles it has come to be the term used by banjo players to mean "chopping" offbeat chords. But, I think they would be better served by reserving the word vamp to the repetition connotation. A great example of a "vamp" in action, which many of you are probably familiar with, is the "chord lick" played at the start, and in between all solos, of the tune "Lonesome Fiddle Blues." It is that "thing" when the entire band plays a Dm and a C chord back a forth in a particular rhythm. Here is a good example of that vamp in that tune: youtube.com/watch?v=ZarY4OBcaEw Not everyone uses the "vamp" in their arrangement but most folks do. A "vamp", such as that, is often used as a repetitious pattern over which a soloist may freely jam over--sometimes for a quite long time.

Another decent example of a vamp in action is at the start of each repetition of my tune McDonough, right here on the ol' MandoHangout jukebox: mandohangout.com/myhangout/med...archived=

If that doesn't make perfect sense I suggest that you watch THIS! There is a lot of truth in the seeming non-sense of Barry Scmaltz. Brilliant really... youtube.com/watch?v=zvxlS2r714s Have fun!

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Exactly.